UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
Zod said:
Seems like a Tory thing........perhaps saying one thing and then doing another didn't fit well with him so he moved to UKIP.One thing is for certain is that if he tries to be duplicitous now he will definitely be outed (by anti kippers if nobody else).... which was clearly not the case when he was a Tory .
Zod said:
He didn't have anyone to lie to about his intentions before. You lot can defend him as much as you like, but his lies speak for themselves.
Not defending him at all.........lying politicians are unacceptable.........but then he was a Tory at the time. Be a bit like our new rescue dog - lovely fella just needs retraining, get rid of a few bad habits and he will soon learn on how we do things around here and get rewarded for good behaviour.So businesses shouldn't express their opinions if they're worried about the effects of an exit from the EU, nice.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservat...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservat...
Redwood said:
John Redwood has vowed to punish businesses who speak out in favour of Britain remaining in the European Union.
Mr Redwood, one the most senior Tory Eurosceptics, said companies who did not stay silent on the country's EU membership would pay a "very dear economic and financial price".
Chief executives who decide to take a corporate position on the issue could lose their jobs while those campaigning against membership would ensure there were financial consequences, Mr Redwood warned.
The former Welsh secretary demanded firms "keep out" of the debate and "beware" not to "meddle in politics".
Mr Redwood told a fringe event about Britain's place in the EU that "the only answer for all concerned is for big business to keep out and not express a corporate view".
He added: "If they don't understand that now they will find those of us organising the 'get out' campaign will then make life difficult for them by making sure that their customers, their employees and their shareholders who disagree with them - and there will be a lot who disagree with them - will be expressing their views very forcefully and will be destablising their corporate governance.
"This is absolutely crucial that these people get this. That it will be deeply disruptive to their businesses, and maybe even to their own tenure of their jobs, if a chief executive with a handful of shares thinks he can put the voice of a multi-national corporation behind a highly intense political argument in one country in which they operate.
"It would be extremely foolish and we must make sure they have to pay a very dear economic and financial price were they to try that ill-judged thing."
Edited to add: yes I know Redwood isn't a member of UKIP, just a random Tory loon.Mr Redwood, one the most senior Tory Eurosceptics, said companies who did not stay silent on the country's EU membership would pay a "very dear economic and financial price".
Chief executives who decide to take a corporate position on the issue could lose their jobs while those campaigning against membership would ensure there were financial consequences, Mr Redwood warned.
The former Welsh secretary demanded firms "keep out" of the debate and "beware" not to "meddle in politics".
Mr Redwood told a fringe event about Britain's place in the EU that "the only answer for all concerned is for big business to keep out and not express a corporate view".
He added: "If they don't understand that now they will find those of us organising the 'get out' campaign will then make life difficult for them by making sure that their customers, their employees and their shareholders who disagree with them - and there will be a lot who disagree with them - will be expressing their views very forcefully and will be destablising their corporate governance.
"This is absolutely crucial that these people get this. That it will be deeply disruptive to their businesses, and maybe even to their own tenure of their jobs, if a chief executive with a handful of shares thinks he can put the voice of a multi-national corporation behind a highly intense political argument in one country in which they operate.
"It would be extremely foolish and we must make sure they have to pay a very dear economic and financial price were they to try that ill-judged thing."
Zod said:
So cowardly he's prepared to risk losing his seat and letting the electorate decide!?I don't know him. I'm not surprised he lied to Grant Shapps (who never fancied him anyway...). When I left the Police to join an airline I didn't tell my boss until the day I put my notice in. I'd made my mind up but I didn't trust my boss not to spike my new job out of resentment. He talked to me about promotion and offered to support my candidacy. I had to outright lie until I had my contract.
If he lies to the electorate like Cameron then I would say he's a dishonest coward.
Zod said:
He was leaving one organisation to go to a 'competitor' - of course he had to go along and pretend he was attending conference and so on until the announcement he was leaving. It's bizarre to read any more into this. 0a said:
Zod said:
He was leaving one organisation to go to a 'competitor' - of course he had to go along and pretend he was attending conference and so on until the announcement he was leaving. It's bizarre to read any more into this. Zod said:
0a said:
Zod said:
He was leaving one organisation to go to a 'competitor' - of course he had to go along and pretend he was attending conference and so on until the announcement he was leaving. It's bizarre to read any more into this. IainT said:
Honest and brave would have been to 'come out' as soon as his decision was made, not to hold back to the start of conference and do as much damage as possible. As it is he's behaved like a typical politician.
err... no.he may be many things, but he is not a 'typical' career politician.
(look at his background)
IainT said:
Honest and brave would have been to 'come out' as soon as his decision was made, not to hold back to the start of conference and do as much damage as possible. As it is he's behaved like a typical politician.
Politics is all about point-scoring and playing cards to best advantage...surely you understand that? Yes very typical to stand down and force a by-election which he has minimal chance of winning...brenflys777 said:
Wombat3 said:
brenflys777 said:
You may feel a moral obligation to protect treaties that are not in the public interest and were not within the politicians mandate. I certainly don't.
WOW indeed. Just to be clear, you are advocating ignoring the law when you don't like it?
Should this apply to all laws & treaties or just the ones we don't like on a Monday?
The deals with the EU are similar to the mis-sold bank PPI schemes. People bought in without being aware what they were agreeing to.
I'm puzzled by your willingness to dismiss renegotiation or withdrawal. If they aren't possible what does Cameron plan to do if a referendum doesn't go his way? Have another vote?
What you can not do is just ignore laws or legally binding treaties just because you decide don't like them - where does that one stop?
What you have to do is change them or follow a process to extract yourself from being bound by them (in this case leave the EU). Neither can be done overnight.
brenflys777 said:
Wombat3 said:
There is a very simple (political) reason there is no meat on the bones yet on the EU negotiation. As frustrating as you may find it , it is not in his interests to have the thing descend into a detailed debate about EXACTLY what he might be able to achieve (or not) and therefore have the thing pre-judged - because that is EXACTLY what you want to be able to do - and so does Miliband. Starve the fire of oxygen & all that.
Presumably he thinks the statement that the referendum would be an "In-Out" referendum is clear enough for most people. I also don't see anyone in the media or in political circles questioning what that one means.
Elections are about "Macro" positioning. His position is clear enough for most of the electorate on the EU in that respect
...and so is Miliband's.
Or an even simpler non political explanation. If something appears to lack substance, it is often because it's insubstantial.Presumably he thinks the statement that the referendum would be an "In-Out" referendum is clear enough for most people. I also don't see anyone in the media or in political circles questioning what that one means.
Elections are about "Macro" positioning. His position is clear enough for most of the electorate on the EU in that respect
...and so is Miliband's.
You and Cameron can rely on faith, many others require evidence. I don't think Cameron's renegotiation is cloaked. I think it's absent.
HonestIago said:
IainT said:
Honest and brave would have been to 'come out' as soon as his decision was made, not to hold back to the start of conference and do as much damage as possible. As it is he's behaved like a typical politician.
Politics is all about point-scoring and playing cards to best advantage...surely you understand that? Yes very typical to stand down and force a by-election which he has minimal chance of winning...Zod said:
On Saturday he thought he would win easily as Carswell will in Clacton. He got a rude awakening yesterday and had to abandon his walkabout.
show us the evidence of this?(and yes, I have read the report)
funny how Farage already had another engagement to attend that pre-dated this day...
FiF said:
Wombat3 said:
There is a very simple (political) reason there is no meat on the bones yet on the EU negotiation. As frustrating as you may find it , it is not in his interests to have the thing descend into a detailed debate about EXACTLY what he might be able to achieve (or not) and therefore have the thing pre-judged - because that is EXACTLY what you want to be able to do - and so does Miliband. Starve the fire of oxygen & all that.
Presumably he thinks the statement that the referendum would be an "In-Out" referendum is clear enough for most people. I also don't see anyone in the media or in political circles questioning what that one means.
Elections are about "Macro" positioning. His position is clear enough for most of the electorate on the EU in that respect
...and so is Miliband's.
No sorry flatly disagree. Presumably he thinks the statement that the referendum would be an "In-Out" referendum is clear enough for most people. I also don't see anyone in the media or in political circles questioning what that one means.
Elections are about "Macro" positioning. His position is clear enough for most of the electorate on the EU in that respect
...and so is Miliband's.
It would be clearly in his interests to say
THESE are the things that I would like to see reformed.
He could even indicate things where he thinks that it will be really difficult to get reform but will try to do so.
He has also said that he may in the event recommend an out vote. That means there must be some things that are lines in the sand. So why not say what they are?
My opinion fwiw is that he has no lines in the sand, the I may recommend an out vote is empty rhetoric imvho but will wait and see.
Strongly feel that he would win more people onto his side if there were more than the empty soundbites.
As for playing into what Miliband wants. Labour are currently kings of empty rhetoric. Get some details in front of them and they are stuffed, time and time again.
But at the moment I don't trust Cameron further than I could have thrown Cyril Smith with my little finger. There are many others like me out there. The man is not fit for office.
Scuffers said:
Zod said:
On Saturday he thought he would win easily as Carswell will in Clacton. He got a rude awakening yesterday and had to abandon his walkabout.
show us the evidence of this?(and yes, I have read the report)
funny how Farage already had another engagement to attend that pre-dated this day...
Scuffers said:
Zod said:
On Saturday he thought he would win easily as Carswell will in Clacton. He got a rude awakening yesterday and had to abandon his walkabout.
show us the evidence of this?(and yes, I have read the report)
funny how Farage already had another engagement to attend that pre-dated this day...
Esseesse said:
Scuffers said:
Zod said:
On Saturday he thought he would win easily as Carswell will in Clacton. He got a rude awakening yesterday and had to abandon his walkabout.
show us the evidence of this?(and yes, I have read the report)
funny how Farage already had another engagement to attend that pre-dated this day...
Liblabcon all over it.
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