UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
brenflys777 said:
The Guardian article you link is nearly two years old. It states that he is giving the 'spirit' of how he will address the EU renegotiation. It doesn't give specifics. The only advancement noticeable from date of publication is the fact Cameron supports expanding the EU into other countries, the developments in the Ukraine have not been positive.
On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one. The EU say he won't get it, it's so important to Cameron that it's the only bottom line he indicates, but he's happy to wait at least 4 years from that statement before he will deliver on the ultimatum.
I deliberately linked to one 2 years old, because you were saying he never said his intentions and I wanted to show he has done over a long period- you just haven't been paying attention.On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one. The EU say he won't get it, it's so important to Cameron that it's the only bottom line he indicates, but he's happy to wait at least 4 years from that statement before he will deliver on the ultimatum.
I also linked to one this week which states his "line in the sand", which as has been said has been put more succinctly elsewhere also
You may not agree with his intentions, you may not believe that what he is asking for is achievable, or even believe him, but try to be more accurate and not claim he has not said anything on the those subjects. Because if you don't it makes you look like you have your fingers in your ears saying "I can't hear you" and weakens your argument.
p.s. apologies for any confusion caused my name change since last post.
mrpurple said:
eharding said:
...and the greatest trick the Devil ever performed was convincing the World he wasn't a 'kipper.
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
eharding said:
...and the greatest trick the Devil ever performed was convincing the World he wasn't a 'kipper.
mrpurple said:
Feel better now do we?......I don't believe in your so called god either sorry...so at least you got that bit right.
Simply limbering up.We've just managed to dispense with one bunch of blue-faced gobby Nationalist muppets determined to bugger the country up in the pursuit of their own self-obsessed pip-squeak pipe-dreams, and now we've got a similar task at hand with an equally bumptious lot.
The only difference is that the faces are Purple, instead of blue.
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
Feel better now do we?......I don't believe in your so called god either sorry...so at least you got that bit right.
Simply limbering up.We've just managed to dispense with one bunch of blue-faced gobby Nationalist muppets determined to bugger the country up in the pursuit of their own self-obsessed pip-squeak pipe-dreams, and now we've got a similar task at hand with an equally bumptious lot.
The only difference is that the faces are Purple, instead of blue.
eharding said:
Simply limbering up.
We've just managed to dispense with one bunch of blue-faced gobby Nationalist muppets determined to bugger the country up in the pursuit of their own self-obsessed pip-squeak pipe-dreams, and now we've got a similar task at hand with an equally bumptious lot.
The only difference is that the faces are Purple, instead of blue.
Oh dear. We've just managed to dispense with one bunch of blue-faced gobby Nationalist muppets determined to bugger the country up in the pursuit of their own self-obsessed pip-squeak pipe-dreams, and now we've got a similar task at hand with an equally bumptious lot.
The only difference is that the faces are Purple, instead of blue.
The similarity between Cameron's promise to negotiate real concessions from the EU and Salmond's promise to negotiate terms for a currency union with the UK is striking... both say anything to get your vote
Edited by 0a on Friday 3rd October 22:12
mrpurple said:
Who's this "we" you speak of.....the holy trinity.......you, Gordon Brown and your god? what I trio!!!
...and you think it was Farage and his acolytes who kept the Union together? If you work in a sector where mandatory drug testing is common, I'd advise you a) take a week off and b) cease your consumption of the recreational pharmaceuticals.0a said:
Oh dear.
The similarity between Cameron's promise to negotiate real concessions from the EU and Salmond's promise to negotiate terms for a currency union with the UK is striking... both say anything to get your vote
Actuall it's quite different as Cameron is saying you can vote on the result.The similarity between Cameron's promise to negotiate real concessions from the EU and Salmond's promise to negotiate terms for a currency union with the UK is striking... both say anything to get your vote
Edited by 0a on Friday 3rd October 22:12
NoNeed said:
0a said:
Oh dear.
The similarity between Cameron's promise to negotiate real concessions from the EU and Salmond's promise to negotiate terms for a currency union with the UK is striking... both say anything to get your vote
Actuall it's quite different as Cameron is saying you can vote on the result.The similarity between Cameron's promise to negotiate real concessions from the EU and Salmond's promise to negotiate terms for a currency union with the UK is striking... both say anything to get your vote
Edited by 0a on Friday 3rd October 22:12
But it won't do a lot of good pointing that out to our local PH 'kipper Fluffnik clones...or, if you will, 'kipperniks.
They're too far down the exactly same road - well, parallel road - same heading, different colour tarmac - blue vs. purple.
JustAnotherLogin said:
brenflys777 said:
The Guardian article you link is nearly two years old. It states that he is giving the 'spirit' of how he will address the EU renegotiation. It doesn't give specifics. The only advancement noticeable from date of publication is the fact Cameron supports expanding the EU into other countries, the developments in the Ukraine have not been positive.
On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one. The EU say he won't get it, it's so important to Cameron that it's the only bottom line he indicates, but he's happy to wait at least 4 years from that statement before he will deliver on the ultimatum.
I deliberately linked to one 2 years old, because you were saying he never said his intentions and I wanted to show he has done over a long period- you just haven't been paying attention. On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one. The EU say he won't get it, it's so important to Cameron that it's the only bottom line he indicates, but he's happy to wait at least 4 years from that statement before he will deliver on the ultimatum.
brenflys777 said:
. To Cameron's supporters he offers no explanation of what his renegotiation will entail, what his bottom lines are for change and what he will do if the electorate vote to leave.
JustAnotherLogin said:
I also linked to one this week which states his "line in the sand", which as has been said has been put more succinctly elsewhere also
You may not agree with his intentions, you may not believe that what he is asking for is achievable, or even believe him, but try to be more accurate and not claim he has not said anything on the those subjects. Because if you don't it makes you look like you have your fingers in your ears saying "I can't hear you" and weakens your argument.
If you can find a point where I have said that he 'has not said anything on those subjects' I will apologise for being in error, but Cameron says a lot. He also says it really well. His actual detail of how and what he will renegotiate is lacking and his accomplishments are absent. Cameron has had four years to start renegotiating. He has achieved nothing. He has said a lot, he has delivered nothing. His veto was limp, his promise to cut the budget happened but British payments still went up! If Cameron wants to spike the UKIP guns he could commit to more than a promise to stop benefits for migrants from new EU countries. He can't or won't. That isn't a line in the sand, it's a cat piddle in a sandpit. You may not agree with his intentions, you may not believe that what he is asking for is achievable, or even believe him, but try to be more accurate and not claim he has not said anything on the those subjects. Because if you don't it makes you look like you have your fingers in your ears saying "I can't hear you" and weakens your argument.
brenflys777 said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
brenflys777 said:
The Guardian article you link is nearly two years old. It states that he is giving the 'spirit' of how he will address the EU renegotiation. It doesn't give specifics. The only advancement noticeable from date of publication is the fact Cameron supports expanding the EU into other countries, the developments in the Ukraine have not been positive.
On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one. The EU say he won't get it, it's so important to Cameron that it's the only bottom line he indicates, but he's happy to wait at least 4 years from that statement before he will deliver on the ultimatum.
I deliberately linked to one 2 years old, because you were saying he never said his intentions and I wanted to show he has done over a long period- you just haven't been paying attention. On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one. The EU say he won't get it, it's so important to Cameron that it's the only bottom line he indicates, but he's happy to wait at least 4 years from that statement before he will deliver on the ultimatum.
brenflys777 said:
. To Cameron's supporters he offers no explanation of what his renegotiation will entail, what his bottom lines are for change and what he will do if the electorate vote to leave.
JustAnotherLogin said:
I also linked to one this week which states his "line in the sand", which as has been said has been put more succinctly elsewhere also
You may not agree with his intentions, you may not believe that what he is asking for is achievable, or even believe him, but try to be more accurate and not claim he has not said anything on the those subjects. Because if you don't it makes you look like you have your fingers in your ears saying "I can't hear you" and weakens your argument.
If you can find a point where I have said that he 'has not said anything on those subjects' I will apologise for being in error, but Cameron says a lot. He also says it really well. His actual detail of how and what he will renegotiate is lacking and his accomplishments are absent. Cameron has had four years to start renegotiating. He has achieved nothing. He has said a lot, he has delivered nothing. His veto was limp, his promise to cut the budget happened but British payments still went up! If Cameron wants to spike the UKIP guns he could commit to more than a promise to stop benefits for migrants from new EU countries. He can't or won't. That isn't a line in the sand, it's a cat piddle in a sandpit. You may not agree with his intentions, you may not believe that what he is asking for is achievable, or even believe him, but try to be more accurate and not claim he has not said anything on the those subjects. Because if you don't it makes you look like you have your fingers in your ears saying "I can't hear you" and weakens your argument.
So are you going to apologise for being in error? Hard to read those sentences as anything other than inconsistent
And for suggesting it is me not paying attention?
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
Who's this "we" you speak of.....the holy trinity.......you, Gordon Brown and your god? what I trio!!!
...and you think it was Farage and his acolytes who kept the Union together? If you work in a sector where mandatory drug testing is common, I'd advise you a) take a week off and b) cease your consumption of the recreational pharmaceuticals.mrpurple said:
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
Who's this "we" you speak of.....the holy trinity.......you, Gordon Brown and your god? what I trio!!!
...and you think it was Farage and his acolytes who kept the Union together? If you work in a sector where mandatory drug testing is common, I'd advise you a) take a week off and b) cease your consumption of the recreational pharmaceuticals.I'd forgotten that, as you have previously told us, the cumulative effects of cigarettes and an indulgent diet had rendered you unable to contribute further to the nation's GDP on account of having throughly buggered your heart.
The question is though, if you're not even competent to look after your own sorry carcass, what it is that makes you feel qualified to bang on about how the country as a whole should be run?
How you treat your own body is entirely your own concern.
I don't mind paying my taxes to fund the NHS to ameliorate your mistakes, because none of us are perfect.
But frankly, you should take a long hard look at yourself, and your 'kipperism, and ask yourself if there isn't a pervasive streak of self-destruction through both.
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
Who's this "we" you speak of.....the holy trinity.......you, Gordon Brown and your god? what I trio!!!
...and you think it was Farage and his acolytes who kept the Union together? If you work in a sector where mandatory drug testing is common, I'd advise you a) take a week off and b) cease your consumption of the recreational pharmaceuticals.I'd forgotten that, as you have previously told us, the cumulative effects of cigarettes and an indulgent diet had rendered you unable to contribute further to the nation's GDP on account of having throughly buggered your heart.
The question is though, if you're not even competent to look after your own sorry carcass, what it is that makes you feel qualified to bang on about how the country as a whole should be run?
How you treat your own body is entirely your own concern.
I don't mind paying my taxes to fund the NHS to ameliorate your mistakes, because none of us are perfect.
But frankly, you should take a long hard look at yourself, and your 'kipperism, and ask yourself if there isn't a pervasive streak of self-destruction through both.
mrpurple said:
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
eharding said:
mrpurple said:
Who's this "we" you speak of.....the holy trinity.......you, Gordon Brown and your god? what I trio!!!
...and you think it was Farage and his acolytes who kept the Union together? If you work in a sector where mandatory drug testing is common, I'd advise you a) take a week off and b) cease your consumption of the recreational pharmaceuticals.I'd forgotten that, as you have previously told us, the cumulative effects of cigarettes and an indulgent diet had rendered you unable to contribute further to the nation's GDP on account of having throughly buggered your heart.
The question is though, if you're not even competent to look after your own sorry carcass, what it is that makes you feel qualified to bang on about how the country as a whole should be run?
How you treat your own body is entirely your own concern.
I don't mind paying my taxes to fund the NHS to ameliorate your mistakes, because none of us are perfect.
But frankly, you should take a long hard look at yourself, and your 'kipperism, and ask yourself if there isn't a pervasive streak of self-destruction through both.
JustAnotherLogin said:
Well you quoted your own line saying "he offers no explanation of ..what his bottom lines are for change", and in that post said "On the bottom lines, you're right he does give one".
So are you going to apologise for being in error? Hard to read those sentences as anything other than inconsistent
And for suggesting it is me not paying attention?
He has not given bottom lines. He has given - as you pointed out - one bottom line. That's it. Four years of renegotiation time and he has one point that is so important to him he can wait at least four years more to address it...but only for new countries joining the EU because the EU have already rebuffed the suggestion for existing countries. So it sounds impressive but amounts to nothing. It is not a bottom line for change it is a point of negotiation for future EU expansion. So I do apologise - I was in error - in the context of the cut down sentence you quoted it would have been more accurate to say "you are partly right", or "you are wrong".So are you going to apologise for being in error? Hard to read those sentences as anything other than inconsistent
And for suggesting it is me not paying attention?
This is what I said I would apologise for if I was in error because you attributed a phrase that I don't recall using to me:
If you can find a point where I have said that he 'has not said anything on those subjects' I will apologise for being in error, but Cameron says a lot. He also says it really well. His actual detail of how and what he will renegotiate is lacking and his accomplishments are absent. Cameron has had four years to start renegotiating. He has achieved nothing. He has said a lot, he has delivered nothing.
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