UKIP - The Future - Volume 2
Discussion
JustAnotherLogin said:
Do explain it then.
because allowing a pint to marked as a pint is, well a policy of not changing. Which is facile. So what would return to imperial?
And what DO you mean by flat rate tax then. Don't worry about using technical language, I'm sure I can cope.
Because I'm not trying to misinterpret, just that there is a certain lack of clarity. By all means link to official UKIP policy on these matters if that is easier. I just went off the posts made on here.
See, there you go, your not understanding what's being proposed (AGAIN!)because allowing a pint to marked as a pint is, well a policy of not changing. Which is facile. So what would return to imperial?
And what DO you mean by flat rate tax then. Don't worry about using technical language, I'm sure I can cope.
Because I'm not trying to misinterpret, just that there is a certain lack of clarity. By all means link to official UKIP policy on these matters if that is easier. I just went off the posts made on here.
they are just saying that they want to repeal the EU law that makes it illegal to sell anything in imperial measures, ie the one used to drag market traders/grocers/etc to court for exactly what? Pint glasses used to have a pint marker line on them with a crown, they were deemed illegal, why?
what's so hard to understand in that?
JustAnotherLogin said:
Let me help you, is it the flat rate tax that UKIP have decided is not a good idea after all, or the new policy which isn't flat rate, but just as progressive as the (long term) aims of the Tories?
Which is it that you are asking us to comment on?
once again, you have not understood what they were getting at.Which is it that you are asking us to comment on?
they were talking of aboloshing everything and having a simple income Tax, ie, no NI, etc etc etc.
this would then have been set at a level that (from memory) was something like 30% but with a high start threshold.
the problem was the press and their stupid readers saw 30% and wailed it;s more than the current 20%, totally missing the point that NI had disappeared and that 30% in reality is less than the current system.
they also missed the point that by massively simplifying the TAX system, it saved massively in the cost of running HMRC (which currently costs almost £4Bn).
zygalski said:
It says you're over 60.
sorry, not even close.powerstroke said:
Scuffers said:
I actually agree with all of them!
not sure what that says....
That your views aren't compatible with some semi educatednot sure what that says....
Lower middle class lefty who reads the guardian and has a non productive job, possibly!!!
HonestIago said:
DJRC said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
Well I can' speak for him but just to start with, restoring feet and inches in place of metres would be just dumb and pointless, and a referendum on building mosques would be a betrayal of our traditions of religious tolerance.
As for proportional taxation as opposed to progressive, please highlight any evidence where a country has tried this and it has worked as a justification for change. Even Farage has distanced himself from a flat rate tax, whilst proposing a two tier flat rate tax, i.e. a progressive tax
We don't have a tradition of religious tolerance. We might have some recent history of it, but our longer term tradition is the exact opposite!As for proportional taxation as opposed to progressive, please highlight any evidence where a country has tried this and it has worked as a justification for change. Even Farage has distanced himself from a flat rate tax, whilst proposing a two tier flat rate tax, i.e. a progressive tax
Does nobody read history anymore?
Religious tolerance will be the death of this country as we know it. What will it take for the Guardianistas to realise that with a certain religion the tolerance only goes one way? Vote LibLabCon - get Rochdale, Rotherham and Tower Hamlets.
I never knew UKIP had proposed controls on mosque-building, suggests they are just as anti-Islam as I hope they'll turn out to be.
Zod said:
don't think DJRC was advocating religious intolerance for now and the future. I don't get the impression that he's a bigot like you. He was pointing out that historically we have been very intolerant. Catholic emancipation didn't come until nearly 300 years after the reformation for instance.
You are as much a bigot as I am. I don't want Islam having any more influence in Britain because it is a vile and intolerant ideology...and yes I do see the irony of being intolerant of intolerance, but needs must. At what point will you be happy with the level of Muslim population in Britain? 10%? 20%? More? Why do we need to allow more mosques to be built? Why do we need to make concessions to Islam?
HonestIago said:
Zod said:
don't think DJRC was advocating religious intolerance for now and the future. I don't get the impression that he's a bigot like you. He was pointing out that historically we have been very intolerant. Catholic emancipation didn't come until nearly 300 years after the reformation for instance.
You are as much a bigot as I am. I don't want Islam having any more influence in Britain because it is a vile and intolerant ideology...and yes I do see the irony of being intolerant of intolerance, but needs must. At what point will you be happy with the level of Muslim population in Britain? 10%? 20%? More? Why do we need to allow more mosques to be built? Why do we need to make concessions to Islam?
HonestIago said:
+1
Religious tolerance will be the death of this country as we know it. What will it take for the Guardianistas to realise that with a certain religion the tolerance only goes one way? Vote LibLabCon - get Rochdale, Rotherham and Tower Hamlets.
I never knew UKIP had proposed controls on mosque-building, suggests they are just as anti-Islam as I hope they'll turn out to be.
UKIP aren't anti Islam. Religious tolerance will be the death of this country as we know it. What will it take for the Guardianistas to realise that with a certain religion the tolerance only goes one way? Vote LibLabCon - get Rochdale, Rotherham and Tower Hamlets.
I never knew UKIP had proposed controls on mosque-building, suggests they are just as anti-Islam as I hope they'll turn out to be.
I don't think the tolerance in the country is the problem. I think the intolerance and unfairness is. If we as a country applied the current laws fairly it would prevent many of the abuse cases from ignored or separated as a cultural issue when in fact they are just criminal scum. As a Policeman in the 90's I had cases dropped because the local Muslim community leaders kicked up a fuss, but the problem is not a Muslim problem, but a case of people having the backbone to just apply the laws fairly. We've seen it on here, UKIP propose better immigration control (so do the cons/Lab) but UKIP get shouted down as being racist, when there is nothing racist about it. It's unfair and needs standing up to.
The proposals about mosque buildings and the burqa weren't anti Islamic IMO, just a grown up approach to dealing with social integration and the incompatibility to freedoms in our society.
If you are anti Islamic you might be better off supporting one of the three main parties who keep wanting to get involved in foreign wars where they try and impose a solution on the mostly Muslim johny foreigner.
brenflys777 said:
UKIP aren't anti Islam.
I don't think the tolerance in the country is the problem. I think the intolerance and unfairness is. If we as a country applied the current laws fairly it would prevent many of the abuse cases from ignored or separated as a cultural issue when in fact they are just criminal scum. As a Policeman in the 90's I had cases dropped because the local Muslim community leaders kicked up a fuss, but the problem is not a Muslim problem, but a case of people having the backbone to just apply the laws fairly. We've seen it on here, UKIP propose better immigration control (so do the cons/Lab) but UKIP get shouted down as being racist, when there is nothing racist about it. It's unfair and needs standing up to.
The proposals about mosque buildings and the burqa weren't anti Islamic IMO, just a grown up approach to dealing with social integration and the incompatibility to freedoms in our society.
If you are anti Islamic you might be better off supporting one of the three main parties who keep wanting to get involved in foreign wars where they try and impose a solution on the mostly Muslim johny foreigner.
Not outwardly as yet. However, I thought it was rather telling that Farage stipulated we should only take Christian refugees from Syria.I don't think the tolerance in the country is the problem. I think the intolerance and unfairness is. If we as a country applied the current laws fairly it would prevent many of the abuse cases from ignored or separated as a cultural issue when in fact they are just criminal scum. As a Policeman in the 90's I had cases dropped because the local Muslim community leaders kicked up a fuss, but the problem is not a Muslim problem, but a case of people having the backbone to just apply the laws fairly. We've seen it on here, UKIP propose better immigration control (so do the cons/Lab) but UKIP get shouted down as being racist, when there is nothing racist about it. It's unfair and needs standing up to.
The proposals about mosque buildings and the burqa weren't anti Islamic IMO, just a grown up approach to dealing with social integration and the incompatibility to freedoms in our society.
If you are anti Islamic you might be better off supporting one of the three main parties who keep wanting to get involved in foreign wars where they try and impose a solution on the mostly Muslim johny foreigner.
You have hit the nail on the head with regard to applying laws fairly - the irony is that if this were the case there would be a lot less anti-Islamic sentiment, including my own probably.
HonestIago said:
Not outwardly as yet. However, I thought it was rather telling that Farage stipulated we should only take Christian refugees from Syria.
You have hit the nail on the head with regard to applying laws fairly - the irony is that if this were the case there would be a lot less anti-Islamic sentiment, including my own probably.
Not outwardly! It's not there - there are members and supporters who are anti Islamic - just like the other parties, but you are trying to see something - a motivation - that isn't there. There's no point rehashing the arguments for policies which may not be in their manifesto for the next election, but the burka and mosque policies were only an indication that UKIP were prepared to talk about social issues that other parties had made taboo. You have hit the nail on the head with regard to applying laws fairly - the irony is that if this were the case there would be a lot less anti-Islamic sentiment, including my own probably.
The telling thing about Farage on Syria was that he recognised that the religious intolerance in Syria would mean that the Christian population was at grave risk and he thought that we should be ready to help genuine refugees like the Christian minority in Syria. I heard him interviewed at the time and the only telling thing about it was that it showed good observation to a problem that Cameron et al considered much later. His comments about the dangers of arming the rebels were prescient too.
longblackcoat said:
brenflys777 said:
UKIP aren't anti Islam.
No, they're not anti-Islam, and they're not racist either.Unfortunately, a fair number of their supporters seem to be.
This has been done to death here as you well know!
longblackcoat said:
No, they're not anti-Islam, and they're not racist either.
Unfortunately, a fair number of their supporters seem to be.
Could say the same for any other party; certainly the level of unthinking racism I come across in the pub in a traditional Labour area would tend to suggest so.Unfortunately, a fair number of their supporters seem to be.
Einion Yrth said:
longblackcoat said:
No, they're not anti-Islam, and they're not racist either.
Unfortunately, a fair number of their supporters seem to be.
Could say the same for any other party; certainly the level of unthinking racism I come across in the pub in a traditional Labour area would tend to suggest so.Unfortunately, a fair number of their supporters seem to be.
longblackcoat said:
I don't doubt that for a minute - my experience (and I don't claim it to be representative) is that the prejudices are a little more to the fore with UKIP supporters.
That's a shame. I can sympathise, the most racist, intolerant, prejudiced and homophobic people I've met have been from one particular ethnic and religious background. Maybe I've been unlucky. It would be easy to generalise and label a group but we have to strive to treat everyone as we find them. I certainly try. brenflys777 said:
longblackcoat said:
I don't doubt that for a minute - my experience (and I don't claim it to be representative) is that the prejudices are a little more to the fore with UKIP supporters.
That's a shame. I can sympathise, the most racist, intolerant, prejudiced and homophobic people I've met have been from one particular ethnic and religious background. Maybe I've been unlucky. It would be easy to generalise and label a group but we have to strive to treat everyone as we find them. I certainly try. 
JustAnotherLogin said:
As for proportional taxation as opposed to progressive, please highlight any evidence where a country has tried this and it has worked as a justification for change. Even Farage has distanced himself from a flat rate tax, whilst proposing a two tier flat rate tax, i.e. a progressive tax
About 40 countries have a flat rate tax. Including several EU countires.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_th...
Mrr T said:
About 40 countries have a flat rate tax. Including several EU countires.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_th...
Nowhere in the EU with remotely comparable economic strength with Britain. Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria? Can't see us rushing to adopt the same approach as them...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_th...
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