UKIP - The Future - Volume 2

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Mrr T

12,229 posts

265 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
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Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
Not the North document which discusses at great length the problems of exiting in a realistic time frame without going via EEA or EFTA which is not UKIP policy because of the free movement of labour.

So can i confirm its now the plan of UKIP not to leave the EU since they have no plan on how to do so on a realistic time scale.
question...

do you have to work at being a pillock or does it come naturally?
Such insults I am so so upset.

Sorry if I upset you by pointing out that the UKIP has no idea how to achieve its single most important policy.

It needs to be a strategy which:
1. Has minimal impact on UK economic position.
2. Can be carried out within a single parliament.
3. Can be delivered against a back ground of apathy and annoyance from the EU commission and other member states.

If it has no strategy to achieve that I assume its policy is to remain in the EU unless it breaks up.

Mrr T

12,229 posts

265 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
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Esseesse said:
Can't we just go via EEA or EFTA and break the free movement rule bit?
No as Switzerland are proving. However, as per the North plan EEA/EFTA may only be a starting point. Just a quick way, 2 years, of achieving a complex process without breaking the UK economy.

Any other strategy is likely to last so long a change of government may reverse the process.


BGARK

5,494 posts

246 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
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crofty1984 said:
I do think we're better off in the EU
No we are not.

zygalski

7,759 posts

145 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
BGARK said:
No we are not.
....and so sums up yer average kipper cost/benefit analysis of EU membership.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
Such insults I am so so upset.

Sorry if I upset you by pointing out that the UKIP has no idea how to achieve its single most important policy.

It needs to be a strategy which:
1. Has minimal impact on UK economic position.
2. Can be carried out within a single parliament.
3. Can be delivered against a back ground of apathy and annoyance from the EU commission and other member states.

If it has no strategy to achieve that I assume its policy is to remain in the EU unless it breaks up.
in case you had not noticed, this is PH, it's a forum, it's not UKIP's think-tank or policy generating unit.

I am pretty confident that when it comes down to the details, (and for that to happen, UKIP would have to be in some kind of parliamentary coalition), the combined heads of government and the civil service will manage to figure it out.

you make out like it's impossible to quit, actually I am sure its very easy, the hard part is doing it in a way that does not piss everybody else off.


BGARK

5,494 posts

246 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
zygalski said:
BGARK said:
No we are not.
....and so sums up yer average kipper cost/benefit analysis of EU membership.
I am not a kipper, whatever that is. I am a business person who employs people and is a net contributor for our country, I base my view on experience and maths, not who I like or don't.

I also export products and employ "skilled" foreign workers.

Personalities and voting labour/tory "because my dad did" is a completely narrow minded viewpoint.

What do you do?


WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

239 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
zygalski said:
Art0ir said:
I couldn't care either way, for entirely selfish reasons. I only addressed it for entertainment, I was hoping you would read the first half of the post.
I disagree with the manifesto in its entirety. The part about Inheritance just took me by surprise, for reasons I gave above.
Even this?

– UKIP will ensure there is an initial presumption of 50/50 shared parenting in child custody matters and grandparents will be given visitation rights.
:taptap: Is this thing working? wavey

Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
WinstonWolf said:
Even this?

– UKIP will ensure there is an initial presumption of 50/50 shared parenting in child custody matters and grandparents will be given visitation rights.
:taptap: Is this thing working? wavey
on the face of it, I don't have a problem with this as the default start position? (initial presumption <> outcome)

do you?


Mrr T

12,229 posts

265 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
in case you had not noticed, this is PH, it's a forum, it's not UKIP's think-tank or policy generating unit.

I am pretty confident that when it comes down to the details, (and for that to happen, UKIP would have to be in some kind of parliamentary coalition), the combined heads of government and the civil service will manage to figure it out.

you make out like it's impossible to quit, actually I am sure its very easy, the hard part is doing it in a way that does not piss everybody else off.

No but it is a thread about a political party which has no idea after 20 years of how to carry out its key policy.

Until it does and admits that to do so successfully will mean its other key policy on EU immigration may take 10 years to implement then it remains a joke.

I never said it was impossible to leave the EU but having looked at the various options I believe the North plan is at this time the only practical plan which works without destroying our economy and in a time scale which would make it deliverable.

Until Nigel and his mates starts working out policies which work they will remain a party of protest. As such they are more likely to keep us in the EU. I wonder if that is Nigel's real plan rather than lose the nice EU job.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

239 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
WinstonWolf said:
WinstonWolf said:
Even this?

– UKIP will ensure there is an initial presumption of 50/50 shared parenting in child custody matters and grandparents will be given visitation rights.
:taptap: Is this thing working? wavey
on the face of it, I don't have a problem with this as the default start position? (initial presumption <> outcome)

do you?
Not at all, but Zyggy said he disagreed with the entire manifesto... As I see it he's either a feminist or a liar biggrin

Scuffers

20,887 posts

274 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
No but it is a thread about a political party which has no idea after 20 years of how to carry out its key policy.

Until it does and admits that to do so successfully will mean its other key policy on EU immigration may take 10 years to implement then it remains a joke.

I never said it was impossible to leave the EU but having looked at the various options I believe the North plan is at this time the only practical plan which works without destroying our economy and in a time scale which would make it deliverable.

Until Nigel and his mates starts working out policies which work they will remain a party of protest. As such they are more likely to keep us in the EU. I wonder if that is Nigel's real plan rather than lose the nice EU job.
no, let's get this right.

you are assuming they don't have a fully detailed exit plan just because you have not seen it.

you are then assuming that it will take 10 years etc etc etc..

well, we all know what assuming says about you don't we?

Look, nobody is suggesting it's a 10 minute job, but it's not going to take 10 years, and it's certainly not going to lay waste to out industrial or financial bases.

to keep on claiming such just makes you look somewhat bitter and twisted.






turbobloke

103,950 posts

260 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Common feature of credible Brexit discussions - 3 years for the main work. There will be ongoing negotiations in various places but the main job needn't be 10 years. Mutuality of trade benefits won't suddenly become one-way.

Zod

35,295 posts

258 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
you are assuming they don't have a fully detailed exit plan just because you have not seen it.
Do you think they have one? I don't.

BGARK

5,494 posts

246 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Zod said:
Scuffers said:
you are assuming they don't have a fully detailed exit plan just because you have not seen it.
Do you think they have one? I don't.
The other parties have had 50 years to get theirs sorted, can I see a copy please?

Your point makes no sense, no one is ever perfect or has a crystal ball..

Mrr T

12,229 posts

265 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
no, let's get this right.

you are assuming they don't have a fully detailed exit plan just because you have not seen it.

you are then assuming that it will take 10 years etc etc etc..

well, we all know what assuming says about you don't we?

Look, nobody is suggesting it's a 10 minute job, but it's not going to take 10 years, and it's certainly not going to lay waste to out industrial or financial bases.

to keep on claiming such just makes you look somewhat bitter and twisted.
I would bet a lot of money UKIP do not have a detailed plan. Nor do I think they are capable of coming up with a plan.

anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
no, let's get this right.

you are assuming they don't have a fully detailed exit plan just because you have not seen it.

you are then assuming that it will take 10 years etc etc etc..

well, we all know what assuming says about you don't we?

Look, nobody is suggesting it's a 10 minute job, but it's not going to take 10 years, and it's certainly not going to lay waste to out industrial or financial bases.

to keep on claiming such just makes you look somewhat bitter and twisted.
Do you realise just how much that sounds like an SNP-apologist line from two months ago?

Zod

35,295 posts

258 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
BGARK said:
Zod said:
Scuffers said:
you are assuming they don't have a fully detailed exit plan just because you have not seen it.
Do you think they have one? I don't.
The other parties have had 50 years to get theirs sorted, can I see a copy please?

Your point makes no sense, no one is ever perfect or has a crystal ball..
No other party has a policy to leave the EU (the Tories have a policy to hold a referendum), so your point is nonsense.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

208 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
BGARK said:
crofty1984 said:
I do think we're better off in the EU
No we are not.
Isn't the point, regardless of whether we'd be better off in or out of the EU, that we 'are' outside of the EU. We cease to exist as we know of inside the EU, part of an empire that is not our own.

anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Serious question.

The LDs plus the Cons get enough seats at the next GE to be within touching distance of Labour. If UKIP were to join those two parties, it would tip the balance and the Cons could form a coalition Govt with a narrow majority.

In coalition negotiations, Farage says he wants the Cons and LDs to adopt a policy of UK exit from the EU being initiated during the next Parliament. The Cons and the LDs say no; but we will a straight in/out referendum.

What would UKIP supporters want Farage to do in those circs? Compromise, form part of the Govt, and get the referendum, or not compromise and leave Lab with a majority Govt?

brenflys777

2,678 posts

177 months

Thursday 9th October 2014
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
I would bet a lot of money UKIP do not have a detailed plan. Nor do I think they are capable of coming up with a plan.
The various options and reports linked to them were discussed in some detail further back in the thread. If I remember correctly three main options existed. Beyond this no one can get too far into specifics because it is dependent on how and when we elect to leave or if the EU breaks apart or ejects us. I get the impression you have such a low opinion of UKIP that nothing they could say would dissuade you from your position.

However seeing as you've got the crystal ball out with your views on UKIP - how many MPs do you think they'll have at the end of tonight?

If Labour keep Middleton - will UKIP beat the Conservatives? (Vote conservative get Labour? - no that's nonsense) biggrin


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