Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[pcvdriver]

Wombat3 said:

Regret to advise that in an independent Scotland, Wednesday will no longer follow Tuesday, the Sun will no longer rise in the East, Scotland will have a currency Union with the UK, will have a fully equipped armed forces from day one, will be nuclear free within 3 months; and will be an automatic member of the EU.

Lastly, Scottish Nationalists are highly economic with the truth.

(only one of these things is true)

I didn't know Gordon Brown was a Scottish Nationalist..... just goes to show eh?

[rich1231]

pcvdriver said:

Divorce, can indeed be messy, expensive and acrimonious, but it needn't be. To use an oft quote PH expression "Just think of the children"..... Only the bat-st crazy go for all out war in divorces. The more pragmatic go for mutual acceptance that the marriage is over and work together, in order not to have the children have to, or want to choose between their parents.

The yes campaign spend almost all their energy demonizing the rUK, it is having a massive impact on attitudes to Scotland in the rest of the UK. If by some miracle Scotland votes yes, it will no longer have a population south of the border that are that well disposed towards those north of it.

[Neonblau]

London424 said:

pcvdriver said:

Alpacaman said:

But the SNP have already said Gordon Brown is (Surprise surprise) Scaremongering.

I wouldn't trust Gordon Brown if he told me that Wednesday followed Tuesday every week. I'd be cross checking the information from other sources first. (and for those who might be tempted into silly remarks - I know for a fact that Wednesday follows Tuesday every week, but being told anything by GB, I'd want some independently verified facts first).

And yet you seem to be pretty light on the facts on every other issue.

Hey, pcv you're back. How's the progress going on those other decisions you wanted made in, by for Scotland?

Guess you couldn't think of any.

[Wombat3]

pcvdriver said:

Gecko1978 said:

Divorce is messy no one wins and the costs are huge, remaining friends afterwards because its best for one side or the other is a pipe dream.

Divorce, can indeed be messy, expensive and acrimonious, but it needn't be. To use an oft quote PH expression "Just think of the children"..... Only the bat-st crazy go for all out war in divorces. The more pragmatic go for mutual acceptance that the marriage is over and work together, in order not to have the children have to, or want to choose between their parents.

That process is not usually helped though when one party keeps telling the other what its entitled to whilst also lying about them & slagging them off to anyone who will listen

[Wombat3]

pcvdriver said:

Wombat3 said:

Regret to advise that in an independent Scotland, Wednesday will no longer follow Tuesday, the Sun will no longer rise in the East, Scotland will have a currency Union with the UK, will have a fully equipped armed forces from day one, will be nuclear free within 3 months; and will be an automatic member of the EU.

Lastly, Scottish Nationalists are highly economic with the truth.

(only one of these things is true)

I didn't know Gordon Brown was a Scottish Nationalist..... just goes to show eh?

Gordon Brown is an entirely separate species (but he does have about as much economic credibility as the Nationalists)

[Mrr T]

alock said:

If you didn't have a peg (at least for a couple of years), you are running the risk of the markets inflating or deflating the new currency.

As an example, you probably have a mortgage and pension in GBP. What happens if the new currency inflates or deflates. Your mortgage might go up but then your pension might as well. Do you want to take the risk? Do you think the majority of Scots want to take this risk? Have huge numbers not even thought about this?

As I said pegs are very difficult to manage.

With regard to the specific issues you raise.

I expect all mortgages on Scottish property would be automatically converted to the new Scottish currency form its date of issue. No mortgagee would want to run the FX risk.

Pensions will depend on who paying. State pensions would I assume be paid in the local currency from day one. As for private pensions this would vary. Since there will be very few Scottish currency assets for them to invest in on day one I expect most would want to continue to pay in sterling. Some may be prepared to pay in the new Scottish currency and manage the FX risk. However pensions are a long term assets so even a short term peg would not resolve the issue.

[McWigglebum4th]

pcvdriver said:

I wouldn't trust Gordon Brown if he told me that Wednesday followed Tuesday every week. I'd be cross checking the information from other sources first. (and for those who might be tempted into silly remarks - I know for a fact that Wednesday follows Tuesday every week, but being told anything by GB, I'd want some independently verified facts first).

Can you explain why 70% of MPs voted for in scotland had brown as their leader if he is so useless

[///ajd]

pcvdriver said:

Gecko1978 said:

Divorce is messy no one wins and the costs are huge, remaining friends afterwards because its best for one side or the other is a pipe dream.

Divorce, can indeed be messy, expensive and acrimonious, but it needn't be. To use an oft quote PH expression "Just think of the children"..... Only the bat-st crazy go for all out war in divorces. The more pragmatic go for mutual acceptance that the marriage is over and work together, in order not to have the children have to, or want to choose between their parents.

Here is one of the great inconsistences and flaws in the Yes argument.

Firstly, the SNP is already acting in a bat-st crazy way towards the rUK.

Secondly, there is a real lack of realism about what amicably might mean to the rUK. Amicably can mean you can go, but all the freebies will stop unless there is mutual interest.

Thirdly, and this is nicely ironic - it seems one of the main complaints is that westminster is unfair to Scotland. This is of course balls victim nonsense, but even if you thought this true, why on earth would you then expect a favourable negotiation on a split?

The split could be amicable, but is unlikely to be so as the SNP will never accept or try to sell to its supporters what the rUK could offer. It will be so far from the white paper the SNP would be finished. I just hope those decieved voters aren't stupid enough to try and blame the rUK, there can only be 1 party at fault for the lies and fake dreams of the white paper - and thats Alex and his band of selfish separatists.

[IroningMan]

pcvdriver said:

Gecko1978 said:

Divorce is messy no one wins and the costs are huge, remaining friends afterwards because its best for one side or the other is a pipe dream.

Divorce, can indeed be messy, expensive and acrimonious, but it needn't be. To use an oft quote PH expression "Just think of the children"..... Only the bat-st crazy go for all out war in divorces. The more pragmatic go for mutual acceptance that the marriage is over and work together, in order not to have the children have to, or want to choose between their parents.

That's code for 'just be reasonable and give us everything we're asking for'.

There are no children in this case.

[pcvdriver]

McWigglebum4th said:

Can you explain why 70% of MPs voted for in scotland had brown as their leader if he is so useless

At a rough guess, I'd guess it was because they been told to vote that way by their party Whips....

[pcvdriver]

Neonblau said:

Hey, pcv you're back. How's the progress going on those other decisions you wanted made in, by for Scotland?

Guess you couldn't think of any.

It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.

[pcvdriver]

IroningMan said:

That's code for 'just be reasonable and give us everything we're asking for'.

There are no children in this case.

Of course there are..... What do you think the general public (a lot of whom have family on both sides of the border) are in this case?

[Wombat3]

pcvdriver said:

Neonblau said:

Hey, pcv you're back. How's the progress going on those other decisions you wanted made in, by for Scotland?

Guess you couldn't think of any.

It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.

So it would be OK if you have to ask Brussels instead?

Bat-st crazy does not even begin to describe that.

It also has to be said that there are a huge array of things that Scotland does not have to ask Westminster about now anyway, including , for example, the option to raise income tax which it has been able to do for the last few years.

[///ajd]

pcvdriver said:

IroningMan said:

That's code for 'just be reasonable and give us everything we're asking for'.

There are no children in this case.

Of course there are..... What do you think the general public (a lot of whom have family on both sides of the border) are in this case?

Er, no, they aren't innocent children, they are all the voters who are making a deliberate choice! Hence they are choosing the split and hence will have to be bound by the consequences. A no vote is the only sensible choice if you really care about yoir family or Scotland. You can't vote Yes and them scream - 'but look after me rUK, won't you please!'.

[pcvdriver]

Wombat3 said:

So it would be OK if you have to ask Brussels instead?

Bat-st crazy does not even begin to describe that.

It also has to be said that there are a huge array of things that Scotland does not have to ask Westminster about now anyway, including , for example, the option to raise income tax which it has been able to do for the last few years.

Well going by your assertions, Scotland won't be in the EU anyway, so a moot point. As for currently using our ability to raise taxes - what would be the point?... as any extra funds would just accrue in Westminster's coffers, not in Holyrood's.

[anonymous-user]

OT.
Guys, why is the word "Viper" so associated with Scotland/Scots? There appears to be many PHers with that as a part of their username, and they appear to be mostly Scots. (ViperPict is the obvious one within this thread, but I've seen it elsewhere) Is there an old TV reference or something?

[///ajd]

Wombat3 said:

pcvdriver said:

Neonblau said:

Hey, pcv you're back. How's the progress going on those other decisions you wanted made in, by for Scotland?

Guess you couldn't think of any.

It's not a case of enumerating the many decisions, but more the fact of the very principle that we currently have to ask to do so from Westminster, that does not sit well with me. So I welcome an independent Scotland that is free from any such encumbrances.

So it would be OK if you have to ask Brussels instead?

Bat-st crazy does not even begin to describe that.

It also has to be said that there are a huge array of things that Scotland does not have to ask Westminster about now anyway, including , for example, the option to raise income tax which it has been able to do for the last few years.

I read that technically that might not be possible now. Holyrood made the UK spend 10s millions on upgrading the UK system to cope with such a change about ten years ago. It had an annual maintenance charge of a few £k to keep the system going, but a few years back the SNP decided to stop funding the maintenance of this facility, thereby wasting all the money spent on this entirely pointless and unused Holyrood 'devolved and essential we must have it' power.

Total waste of money!

[barryrs]

pcvdriver said:

Well going by your assertions, Scotland won't be in the EU anyway, so a moot point. As for currently using our ability to raise taxes - what would be the point?... as any extra funds would just accrue in Westminster's coffers, not in Holyrood's.

Im sorry but im pretty sure that is completely incorrect.

My understanding is that the Scottish government hasn't used its powers to collect additional taxation as they can only currently seek an additional 3p in the pound and they decided the cost of collecting would likely equal that raised. They would be allowed to keep this additional taxation if they imposed it.

I believe that the Scotland act will reduced the level of taxation received from Scotland by Westminster to 10p in the pound and the Scottish government will set its own level above that and will keep that taxation.

[Wombat3]

pcvdriver said:

Wombat3 said:

So it would be OK if you have to ask Brussels instead?

Bat-st crazy does not even begin to describe that.

It also has to be said that there are a huge array of things that Scotland does not have to ask Westminster about now anyway, including , for example, the option to raise income tax which it has been able to do for the last few years.

Well going by your assertions, Scotland won't be in the EU anyway, so a moot point. As for currently using our ability to raise taxes - what would be the point?... as any extra funds would just accrue in Westminster's coffers, not in Holyrood's.

Its a moot point in reality, but its not a moot point if you buy into the Nationalist ticket that says Vote yes because we are going to get a Currency Union, Eu membership etc etc etc

Or don't you buy into/believe those things?

As to the last point, it goes to show how ill-informed you are. Since 2012 Scotland has had the ability to legislate to raise extra income tax revenue (and keep it) with effect from 2016. The power is in place now, it does not need any further legislation (or independence), and that goes for a whole host of other things.

Read & learn - the SNP (SG) has the ability to do all kinds of things but chooses not to because it undermines the negative (bullst) messages about excessive control from Westminster.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-monteith-mad-no...

[McWigglebum4th]

pcvdriver said:

Well going by your assertions, Scotland won't be in the EU anyway, so a moot point. As for currently using our ability to raise taxes - what would be the point?... as any extra funds would just accrue in Westminster's coffers, not in Holyrood's.

Well drop it then and fk up westminister