Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[McWigglebum4th]

exitwound said:

Why can't we be independent? Are we as Scots, too wee, too poor, too stupid? ...We have to believe in ourselves that we CAN make this work..

Forgetting oil, EU, taxes, Trident etc, for a moment, a yes vote means that Scots will have a vote in their own parliament for their own parties and policies instead of the constant labour/tory yo-yoing run by middle England in Wesminster, where we have not had a vote since the early '70's
Our own vote will work for us and us alone. The SNP will be no more, Alex will be out of a job and retired again.
Who cares if it works or not, the whole point is that it'll be up to us whether we sink or swim and its worth it just for that alone..

The reality is, ..is that there is no choice for Scots, ..as if you vote No, your voting against your own country and as such, you aren't a Scot or don't wish to be. This is an amazing chance to secure a future for generations to come, we need to grab this with both hands and make it work at ANY cost.. Anything else doesn't bear thinking about..

So i'm not a true scots?

What the fk am i then as i was born in scotland and i intend to vote NO


And ANY cost?

Are you willing to give up a roof over your head?

I'm not

[McWigglebum4th]

simoid said:

Haha the sad thing is some people probably actually think like that



(I'm really hoping you're at the wind up)

I don't think he is taking the piss

This style of post is far from rare online in the YES forums

[Rollin]

exitwound said:

Why can't we be independent? Are we as Scots, too wee, too poor, too stupid? ...We have to believe in ourselves that we CAN make this work..

Forgetting oil, EU, taxes, Trident etc, for a moment, a yes vote means that Scots will have a vote in their own parliament for their own parties and policies instead of the constant labour/tory yo-yoing run by middle England in Wesminster, where we have not had a vote since the early '70's
Our own vote will work for us and us alone. The SNP will be no more, Alex will be out of a job and retired again.
Who cares if it works or not, the whole point is that it'll be up to us whether we sink or swim and its worth it just for that alone..

The reality is, ..is that there is no choice for Scots, ..as if you vote No, your voting against your own country and as such, you aren't a Scot or don't wish to be. This is an amazing chance to secure a future for generations to come, we need to grab this with both hands and make it work at ANY cost.. Anything else doesn't bear thinking about..

Funny.

[AstonZagato]

exitwound said:

Why can't we be independent?

There is no reason - that is why there is a vote. The question is whether it is a good idea or not.

exitwound said:

Are we as Scots, too wee, too poor, too stupid?

No, no-one is saying that (though it is sad if you believe the Yes campaign's propaganda that those who question the plans for independence are belittling the Scots). The question is whether the Scots are in a better position in a union with the UK. Every sensible analysis of the facts indicates that the lowest risk, highest probability of success option is staying in the UK.

exitwound said:

We have to believe in ourselves that we CAN make this work..

A laudable sentiment but belief does not paper over the cracks

exitwound said:

Forgetting oil, EU, taxes, Trident etc, for a moment,

Those are rather important things to forget about! In fact, a little like forgetting about what your salary and mortgage are when setting your household budget.

exitwound said:

a yes vote means that Scots will have a vote in their own parliament for their own parties and policies instead of the constant labour/tory yo-yoing run by middle England in Wesminster, where we have not had a vote since the early '70's

Pardon? Not had a vote since 1970? Does not compute. Scottish voters have had a government that reflects their party preference in half the administrations since the 1970s. Most (but not all) were times that the rUK would not have chosen that particular administration (i.e. it was Scotland that was decisive in the election).

Also, the Scots have the Scottish Parliament already which makes decisions on virtually every aspect of Scottish life where there are not advantages of being in the Union (so it does not include, for instance defence).

exitwound said:

Who cares if it works or not, the whole point is that it'll be up to us whether we sink or swim and its worth it just for that alone..

I suspect that the shipyard workers whose jobs are at risk are maybe somewhat more nervous about whether independence really works for them. They probably value their salaries over the chance to vote for a politician (who will most likely ignore them anyway).

exitwound said:

The reality is, ..is that there is no choice for Scots, ..as if you vote No, your voting against your own country and as such, you aren't a Scot or don't wish to be.

Charming... So anyone who disagrees with you is not worthy of counting themselves as a Scot? Really? They are traitors to the cause? Are you planning on deporting them after a Yes vote? What a deeply unpleasant point of view of your own countrymen and one for which you should be ashamed.

exitwound said:

This is an amazing chance to secure a future for generations to come, we need to grab this with both hands and make it work

Well, it is a chance but how do you know it will "secure a future", if you don't care about the economic implications? What future is "insecure" in the UK which becomes more "secure" as an independent nation?

exitwound said:

at ANY cost..

Really? If it cost the job of a friend or relative? If you were to lose your job? Your house? Is it worth that?
What if independence means that government spending has to be slashed? That the Scottish NHS becomes a shadow of its current self? That benefits have to fall below subsistence levels?
What about a civil war that engulfs Scotland and causes the deaths of tens of thousands? Is it worth that?
There are vanishingly unlikely scenarios in there but you did say "ANY cost", so I assume you'd still think it worth it?
Again, you have to do some analysis to work out if the dangers of independence outweigh the advantages. You also have a duty to your fellow countrymen to work out if the costs are worth it to them too.

Edited by AstonZagato on Thursday 24th April 18:24

[Alpacaman]

exitwound said:

Why can't we be independent? Are we as Scots, too wee, too poor, too stupid? ...We have to believe in ourselves that we CAN make this work..

Forgetting oil, EU, taxes, Trident etc, for a moment, a yes vote means that Scots will have a vote in their own parliament for their own parties and policies instead of the constant labour/tory yo-yoing run by middle England in Wesminster, where we have not had a vote since the early '70's
Our own vote will work for us and us alone. The SNP will be no more, Alex will be out of a job and retired again.
Who cares if it works or not, the whole point is that it'll be up to us whether we sink or swim and its worth it just for that alone..

The reality is, ..is that there is no choice for Scots, ..as if you vote No, your voting against your own country and as such, you aren't a Scot or don't wish to be. This is an amazing chance to secure a future for generations to come, we need to grab this with both hands and make it work at ANY cost.. Anything else doesn't bear thinking about..

This doesn't bear thinking about!!

We certainly can't forget about currency, oil, EU etc. because these things are critical to our future and we can't pretend otherwise. We already have our own parliament and different policies to the rest of the UK, and as has been said many times no one gets the Government they want all the time.

I respect anyone's wish for independence but not at any cost, I am sure Scotland can succeed as an Independent country but like a lot of people I feel we will do much better remaining within the UK.

[toppstuff]

Zod said:

Mrr T said:

toppstuff said:

A rolling FX forward is going to be expensive - who would pay for it?

A 3 month FX roll should costs no more than 2/3bp.

With one side of the contract in a weak, new currency and the counterparty being the issuer of that currency, able to print money at will?

Quite.

I think the Scottish Salmond ( or whatever they call it ) could get mullered in the markets. It will be seen as a petrocurrency but from a country with a lot of debt, massive public sector funding and weak ( immature ) governance.

This would affect every day lives of ordinary people. It is staggering that no-one is even talking about it.

[Siscar]

toppstuff said:

Quite.

I think the Scottish Salmond ( or whatever they call it ) could get mullered in the markets. It will be seen as a petrocurrency but from a country with a lot of debt, massive public sector funding and weak ( immature ) governance.

This would affect every day lives of ordinary people. It is staggering that no-one is even talking about it.

Its anti-Scotland, scaremongering, traitor territory according to the Nats. You aren't a real Scot unless you believe them blindly and trust that it'll be alright in the end. Apparently.

[voyds9]

exitwound said:

Why can't we be independent? Are we as Scots, too wee, too poor, too stupid? ...We have to believe in ourselves that we CAN make this work..

Forgetting oil, EU, taxes, Trident etc, for a moment, a yes vote means that Scots will have a vote in their own parliament for their own parties and policies instead of the constant labour/tory yo-yoing run by middle England in Wesminster, where we have not had a vote since the early '70's
Our own vote will work for us and us alone. The SNP will be no more, Alex will be out of a job and retired again.
Who cares if it works or not, the whole point is that it'll be up to us whether we sink or swim and its worth it just for that alone..

The reality is, ..is that there is no choice for Scots, ..as if you vote No, your voting against your own country and as such, you aren't a Scot or don't wish to be. This is an amazing chance to secure a future for generations to come, we need to grab this with both hands and make it work at ANY cost.. Anything else doesn't bear thinking about..

SO after separating from rUK, then what. Will the highlands want to separate from the lowlands. What after that, Edinburgh wants to separate as it's the economic powerhouse, then what Princess Street from Queens St.
Where should it end. UK thinks one place Scotland elsewhere but be very careful what you wish for as you may get it.

[Siscar]

voyds9 said:

SO after separating from rUK, then what. Will the highlands want to separate from the lowlands. What after that, Edinburgh wants to separate as it's the economic powerhouse, then what Princess Street from Queens St.
Where should it end. UK thinks one place Scotland elsewhere but be very careful what you wish for as you may get it.

Well we do know that the people of Shetland and Orkney aren't too keen to play so maybe they would the the first to split off.

[davepoth]

exitwound said:

Why can't we be independent? Are we as Scots, too wee, too poor, too stupid? ...We have to believe in ourselves that we CAN make this work..

(please excuse the paraphrasing)

Or is it that you, as pro-indy Scots, are actually too wee, too poor, and too stupid to say "No"? Think about that for a second.

Is it that many have the feeling of being under the English Jackboot? the idea that Westminster rides roughshod over the wishes of every Scotsman? Probably.

Is it that many still see the (sadly inevitable) collapse of mass employment heavy industry in the 1970s and 80s as the fault of the Tory party? Probably.

Are many allowing their emotions, which are being stirred relentlessly by Salmond and the YeSNP, to rule their heads in agreeing to something that in the vast majority of projections, will leave them worse off in the short, medium, and long term? Probably.

[Welshbeef]

voyds9 said:

SO after separating from rUK, then what. Will the highlands want to separate from the lowlands. What after that, Edinburgh wants to separate as it's the economic powerhouse, then what Princess Street from Queens St.
Where should it end. UK thinks one place Scotland elsewhere but be very careful what you wish for as you may get it.

I think it was Burger who stated following the demands of the islands to have a referendum in the event of a yes vote within 7 days. His response "its preposterous they are Scottish so shouldn't get it.." Say no more.

[A.J.M]

Wow.
Just. Wow.

That's an interesting outlook. I was born in Scotland and I'm voting no.

Why 1970 though? Why is that the line in the sand, and not 1950, 1939 or such.
Why 1970?

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

I think it was Burger who stated following the demands of the islands to have a referendum in the event of a yes vote within 7 days. His response "its preposterous they are Scottish so shouldn't get it.." Say no more.

As usual, you've misquoted me and added that completely out of context

[davepoth]

Edinburger said:

Welshbeef said:

I think it was Burger who stated following the demands of the islands to have a referendum in the event of a yes vote within 7 days. His response "its preposterous they are Scottish so shouldn't get it.." Say no more.

As usual, you've misquoted me and added that completely out of context

So what was it you said then? Presumably in light of your rebuttal above you believe in the right of the islands to have a vote?

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

As usual, you've misquoted me and added that completely out of context

Awwww

you being bullied again

or is it oppressed

or just a plain and simple victim

[Siscar]

Edinburger said:

Welshbeef said:

I think it was Burger who stated following the demands of the islands to have a referendum in the event of a yes vote within 7 days. His response "its preposterous they are Scottish so shouldn't get it.." Say no more.

As usual, you've misquoted me and added that completely out of context

Is it? Reads pretty much accurate to how I recall.

[///ajd]

Siscar said:

Edinburger said:

Welshbeef said:

I think it was Burger who stated following the demands of the islands to have a referendum in the event of a yes vote within 7 days. His response "its preposterous they are Scottish so shouldn't get it.." Say no more.

As usual, you've misquoted me and added that completely out of context

Is it? Reads pretty much accurate to how I recall.

yes, i remember it being said too. such nonsense it sticks in the memory

[Gecko1978]

Siscar said:

Is it? Reads pretty much accurate to how I recall.

Yeah I it that way to, I think you said preposterous given they were part of Scotland. No coincidence that they have the oil Alex so badly wants.

oh a exit wound. Forgetting about currency and the EU shows a level of stupidity I thought was impossible to cram into one person. As for the nukes, just have a think for a moment what you are actually dealing with. Nuclear weapons if we the UK say they are stopping where they are then they are end of. There nukes for fk sake not a bag of fireworks to be pissed about with.

[NoNeed]

Gecko1978 said:

Siscar said:

Is it? Reads pretty much accurate to how I recall.

Yeah I it that way to, I think you said preposterous given they were part of Scotland. No coincidence that they have the oil Alex so badly wants.

oh a exit wound. Forgetting about currency and the EU shows a level of stupidity I thought was impossible to cram into one person. As for the nukes, just have a think for a moment what you are actually dealing with. Nuclear weapons if we the UK say they are stopping where they are then they are end of. There nukes for fk sake not a bag of fireworks to be pissed about with.

The UK parliament could grant the islands a referendum in exactly the same way it granted Scotland one.

Scotland would not even get a say in the matter as you can't say one group has a democratic right but another one doesn't. All the nats on here have flown the flag of self governance several times on this thread, why would they want to deny it to others?

[Welshbeef]

When is the next big info release as things have gone quiet following Salmonds jolly to the USA.