Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[mcdjl]

Calvib said:

Classic forum junkie paranoia...

What would I benefit from 'deflecting' anything on this debate?! It does not affect me or the wider real debate...

My point is, the YES campaign are making ground on the no campaign. The no campaign do not seem to have the strategy to do anything about it.

Discuss.

The problem is that the current thought process seems to go like this:
Alex says: we'll join the Eu, share a currency with the UK and everything will be great.
Uk/EU say: that doesn't sound good/likely, someone else points out some flaw and why it might not be great.
Alex says: they're bullying us, picking on us/lying.
Idiot voter says: why would Alex lie to us? Look at all those nasty people bullying us. They must really want us to be part of the UK. Therefore they must really be gaining from us being in it. Therefore we will be far better off out of it. Hence we must vote 'Yes'

How can you have a strategy to deal with such idiocy? As much as i distrust all politicians Alex and the Yes have proven to be liars (the advice from the EU they spent lots of lawyers fees on protecting, before being forced to admit it didn't exist) and yet still people believe him. When people are that damn dumb how can you reason with them?
Its alright going with Fluffs, 'I don't care, I just want independence', full respect, they know it'll be hard/cost, they're willing to take it on the chin. For anyone else that just believes Alex....they're nuts (IMO).
Discuss.

[McWigglebum4th]

Calvib said:

Classic forum junkie paranoia...

What would I benefit from 'deflecting' anything on this debate?! It does not affect me or the wider real debate...

My point is, the YES campaign are making ground on the no campaign. The no campaign do not seem to have the strategy to do anything about it.

Discuss.

I am starting to belive there will be a YES vote

Mainly as the level of morons in scotland is greater then i thought previously

As these morons take everything said by the YES camapign to be the only truth

If they said a YES vote would bring £10 millions pounds each every single day and nobdy would ever again have smelly farts then that is the truth and anyone who sayes otherwise is a lying english tory scumbag

[barryrs]

Im fairly confident that the No campaign will ramp up its efforts nearer to the referendum as it appears the average voter (not just scots but UK wide) has a pretty short attention span.

Salmond has been given a sizable length of rope and i suspect he will use it to hang himself nearer the time when pressed for answers; especially if he is given the live debate he has been asking for.

[Edinburger]

Troubleatmill said:

d/ Financial institutions are making preparations to move large parts of their business south of the border. ( as EU law demands )

Can you explain this one please?

Which organisations and which parts of their business? And explain the EU law you mention too please.

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

I am starting to belive there will be a YES vote

Mainly as the level of morons in scotland is greater then i thought previously

As these morons take everything said by the YES camapign to be the only truth

If they said a YES vote would bring £10 millions pounds each every single day and nobdy would ever again have smelly farts then that is the truth and anyone who sayes otherwise is a lying english tory scumbag

If there is a Yes vote then it's because of the appalling campaign run by Better Together rather than much that Yes Scotland have done, in my view.

[paulrockliffe]

If there's a yes vote it is because a majority of Scots turned out to be stupid, short-sighted and selfish. The campaign is irrelevant, all that matters are the facts. The facts are there for all to see.

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

If there is a Yes vote then it's because of the appalling campaign run by Better Together rather than much that Yes Scotland have done, in my view.

Well better together are somewhat handicapped by the fact they are dealing with reality and not fairy stories

[mcdjl]

Edinburger said:

If there is a Yes vote then it's because of the appalling campaign run by Better Together rather than much that Yes Scotland have done, in my view.

My view on that is a few post above.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

If there is a Yes vote then it's because of the appalling campaign run by Better Together rather than much that Yes Scotland have done, in my view.

No, well yes, you're in agreement. If people vote yes because of better together's campaign, then they are indeed muppets,

[simoid]

Calvib said:

Classic forum junkie paranoia...

What would I benefit from 'deflecting' anything on this debate?! It does not affect me or the wider real debate...

My point is, the YES campaign are making ground on the no campaign. The no campaign do not seem to have the strategy to do anything about it.

Discuss.

What would you know about the strategy? I think I've detected a change in strategy (or at least a change in focus) recently, judging by their advertising campaign anyway - although their "best of both worlds" thing has been going for a while.

It seems that there is widespread ignorance about the message better together put forward, and I include you and Edinburger in this, since IIRC you've both claimed there's nothing positive in their campaign.

I think the yes campaign are doing well to drown the better together campaign in a torrent of bullst - anything Westminster does that some people in Scotland disagree with is jumped upon and shared on Facebook by lots of folk - wings over scotland, newsnet, free scotland, all jump on nonsense bandwagons like vote I yes if you disagree with: Tories, bedroom tax, trident, privatisation of Royal Mail, imaginary money being stolen by London, Scots paying for the sewers in London, etc

Edited by simoid on Friday 25th April 10:34

[Welshbeef]

What happens if in the May 2015 general election all the SNP MPs are voted out or are a minority party in 3rd/4th position?

Who continues the negotiation with Westminster in terms of the split? SNP do not have the mandate.

[simoid]

Welshbeef said:

What happens if in the May 2015 general election all the SNP MPs are voted out or are a minority party in 3rd/4th position?

Who continues the negotiation with Westminster in terms of the split? SNP do not have the mandate.

Haven't you asked this before? I'm sure the loss of a handful of Westminster MPs won't make many sausages of a difference.

I don't see your logic.

And besides, I think the SNP have said it'll be a cross party representation of negotiators, and since they got 45% of the vote! they'll presumably be in a minority while negotiating for Scotland.

[Gaspode]

A.J.M said:

I would like to say, i'm going to borrow this passage that Gaspode has made up. I like it.

If your ever in Glasgow, a beer or more can be claimed for it.

Why thank you! It's a bit of a haul up from Gloucestershire though, so don't pour me one just yet

[mcdjl]

Which campaign has said:
We're better off sharing a currency
We're better off working together on defence
We're better off working together (with the north of England) for shared prosperity
We'll work with you to make a better rail network

Was it the better together campaign or the independence one, or both?

[simoid]

mcdjl said:

Which campaign has said:
We're better off sharing a currency
We're better off working together on defence
We're better off working together (with the north of England) for shared prosperity
We'll work with you to make a better rail network

Was it the better together campaign or the independence one, or both?

The unionists say they won't share a currency with us if we vote yes.
We will continue to work together and share defence information since we'll be neighbours.
We will obviously work together for shared prosperity with our trading partners.
We've invested heavily in Scotland's rail network in the past, with the borders railway and new lines from Edinburgh to Glasgow. Westminster want to spend billions of our money in the south of England building HS2 which nobody wants.

I would be a brilliant yes campaigner!

[Mrr T]

Zod said:

Mrr T said:

toppstuff said:

A rolling FX forward is going to be expensive - who would pay for it?

A 3 month FX roll should costs no more than 2/3bp.

With one side of the contract in a weak, new currency and the counterparty being the issuer of that currency, able to print money at will?

The price on an FX forward is a function of 2 elements.
1. Depth of spot and money markets in the currencies. Scotland will be in the second tier of currencies but markets should be quite liquid.
2. Length of the forward which is why I have assumed 3 months.

Do not forget the FX forward is only needed to the extent the lender cannot borrow local currency.

[toppstuff]

McWigglebum4th said:

Edinburger said:

If there is a Yes vote then it's because of the appalling campaign run by Better Together rather than much that Yes Scotland have done, in my view.

Well better together are somewhat handicapped by the fact they are dealing with reality and not fairy stories

And the fact that the Scottish Gov is spending a lot more money to spread the propaganda.

[toppstuff]

Calvib said:

toppstuff said:

Calvib said:

And I'm not even a yes voter but someone who is concerned by the total ineptitude of the no campaign and chooses to highlight those concerns. .

No-one believes this. You aren't good enough at the game.

You spend a lot of time talking about the "campaign" but refusing to talk about the issues. This is simple deflection. At no stage have you offered any thesis whatsoever on the obvious inability of Yes to address the most basic economic and political issues - the lack of a plan B.

You were found out ages ago.

Classic forum junkie paranoia...

What would I benefit from 'deflecting' anything on this debate?! It does not affect me or the wider real debate...

In that case:

Tell us what you think will happen when you don't get a formal currency union. Tell us how you think you will control inflation and growth when your currency no longer has the rUK and the Bank of England as lender of last resort and you are standing on your own.

Tell us what will happen when the EU either a) flatly refuses immediate entry or b) procrastinates over it for years because they don't want to set off internal battles..

If you simply continue to talk about nonsense like the campaign 'style" rather than the issues, then you ARE deflecting.

So, come on, over to you. Lets hear your take on these issues...

[Gogoplata]

toppstuff said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Edinburger said:

If there is a Yes vote then it's because of the appalling campaign run by Better Together rather than much that Yes Scotland have done, in my view.

Well better together are somewhat handicapped by the fact they are dealing with reality and not fairy stories

And the fact that the Scottish Gov is spending a lot more money to spread the propaganda.

Where is the funding coming from for the No campaign?

[Risky Shift]

Gogoplata said:

Where is the funding coming from for the No campaign?

Various donors fund Better Together. Edit: There was a list on the BT site, but the document doesn't appear to be there any longer.

It does rile me somewhat that I've indirectly funded the "Yes" campaign.

Edited by Risky Shift on Friday 25th April 12:09