Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[NoNeed]

Siscar said:

NoNeed said:

siscar said:

Of course we get a choice, nobody has any power to force it to happen. Equally there is no logic for us to do it. Other European countries are more jealous of our staying out of it than anything else.

I think you under estimate the power of the EU, You do however recognise the jealousy that will motivate them.

I guess you aren't familiar with the Maastricht treaty then, where the opt-out makes it clear that the decision to join, should it ever be taken, lies with the UK Government and not with the EU.

I guess you arn't familiar with Lisbon then as that enables brussles to appoint our leaders if the Euro is threatened. Take a look at greece and spain if you don't beleive me.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Anyone else banned on this changeover?

Surprised you were posting last night...

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

List of questions for Pro Yes as in what extra over status quo will it cost...

Those aren't questions, but some of those points are unanswerable and the random speculation isn't helpful.

[Edinburger]

AstonZagato said:

It is amusing to see that the number of pro-Yessers that have new membership durations, low post counts but high post counts in these threads. The cyber-Nats obviously think e are important. It is very flattering.

It is a pity they can't find anyone with even a whisker of a logical, well constructed, fact-based argument to send over.

To be fair, that's true of both sides.

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

AstonZagato said:

It is amusing to see that the number of pro-Yessers that have new membership durations, low post counts but high post counts in these threads. The cyber-Nats obviously think e are important. It is very flattering.

It is a pity they can't find anyone with even a whisker of a logical, well constructed, fact-based argument to send over.

To be fair, that's true of both sides.

What you think the NO camiagn are sending folk here to demolish your arguments



No we do that for free

[Siscar]

NoNeed said:

Siscar said:

NoNeed said:

siscar said:

Of course we get a choice, nobody has any power to force it to happen. Equally there is no logic for us to do it. Other European countries are more jealous of our staying out of it than anything else.

I think you under estimate the power of the EU, You do however recognise the jealousy that will motivate them.

I guess you aren't familiar with the Maastricht treaty then, where the opt-out makes it clear that the decision to join, should it ever be taken, lies with the UK Government and not with the EU.

I guess you arn't familiar with Lisbon then as that enables brussles to appoint our leaders if the Euro is threatened. Take a look at greece and spain if you don't beleive me.

I'm reasonably familiar with Lisbon, albeit not an expert, but I'm failing to see what is that you refer to. Greece and Spain are in a completely different situation to us, a bit like quoting Austria if you are discussing ocean going fishing rights.

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

Anyone else banned on this changeover?

Surprised you were posting last night...

Why?

Glad to see you made the cut and started this volume off with some fine contributions, incidentally.

Do you have any thoughts on what changes you'd like to see to our society, and how they will benefit Scotland?

[simoid]

mpire said:

Abolish the SNP and save the taxpayer the expense Of Alex's ( repeated ) jollies to
the good ole US of A ?

IIRC more businesses wanted the abolition of the Scottish Parliament than the independence on offer, in that Business for Scotland poll, if that's what you mean

[Gecko1978]

Is this the biggest thread of all time on PH yet volume 5 over 2000 pages of posts.

Re the point made about what will need to be funded new civil service etc I would suggest this are very important. So on day 1 after a yes vote things carry on as they are 2 years latter lots of negociations and suddenly rUK has given scotland a raw deal (maybe) and then Phil "unemplyed" Jones goes to the post office to collect his giro and suddenly its short £10 or non existent.

Not saying this will happen but what if independance means cuts to some serivices surely you want to know before the vote not only what you will gain (country of your own, Freedom, end to evil torys, a UAE style soverign wealth fund etc) but also what you might have to loose...pension, currency, freedom of travel in europe etc.

Burger et al can say its all fine and will be worked out but would the fair thing to do not be to tell people in advnace so they can make an educated choice when they vote....

[Wombat3]

So onto volume 5 & still not a single straight answer to any of the myriad of unanswered questions.

Still, according to the latest wkers over Bath poll the tts are going to win! Its going to be comedy gold either way.

[Gecko1978]

Wombat3 said:

So onto volume 5 & still not a single straight answer to any of the myriad of unanswered questions.

Still, according to the latest wkers over Bath poll the tts are going to win! Its going to be comedy gold either way.

Even if they do win they still have to face the music, eventually when Pill "Pension age" Jones goes to get his pension finds there is no money in the pot, or his cousin "unemployed" finds job centers have closed, or his wife "Soap Fan no 1" find eastenders is gone (maybe a good thing), and there son "Gap year" suddenly can't work in europe.

Win or losse the SNP are not goingt to come out of this smelling of roses.

[AstonZagato]

I think this is why Alex is trying to lose: ill-thought out White Paper, obvious lack of currency (ignore), near impossible to get EU membership (so ignore that too).

He wants to lose but narrowly. He can blame the Tories, claim a manifesto promise is met and continue as before with a few more powers. Bleat for devo-max occasionally and stay in power.

If they win, the dream will most likely turn to ashes. Lose too badly and the SNP get marginalised.

Fair play, it's going his way. But he must be getting a bit squeaky-bummed that they might actually win, then he is proper fooked - a man without a plan.

[Alpacaman]

So yet another business leader, Samir Brikho of AMEC which supports over 5000 Scottish jobs, has warned of the dangers of independence and the billions and billions needed to dismantle ageing North Sea infrastructure which is nearing the end of it's life. Yet the SNP claim with full control of the economy and "huge resources" Scotland will offer an attractive and stable environment for business. How on earth could anyone consider the years of upheaval and uncertainty, if people are dumb enough to vote yes, as being a stable environment. And where are these huge resources coming from? Welcome to the crazy world of Kim Jong Alex and his friends. And still no one actually knows the truth of what we will get if there is a yes vote, other than it won't be what the SNP say it will.

[Wombat3]

Thought for the day:

What , I wonder, would be the effect if a very vocal "We've had enough of the tts, kick them out" campaign were to launch south of the border - perhaps supported by an MP or 3?

[McWigglebum4th]

Wombat3 said:

Thought for the day:

What , I wonder, would be the effect if a very vocal "We've had enough of the tts, kick them out" campaign were to launch south of the border - perhaps supported by an MP or 3?

Probably the SNP screaming you can't make us leave

[NoNeed]

Siscar said:

I'm reasonably familiar with Lisbon, albeit not an expert, but I'm failing to see what is that you refer to. Greece and Spain are in a completely different situation to us, a bit like quoting Austria if you are discussing ocean going fishing rights.

It's not about their position, it is about what could happen under circumstances that the European union is not happy about.

[Siscar]

NoNeed said:

Siscar said:

I'm reasonably familiar with Lisbon, albeit not an expert, but I'm failing to see what is that you refer to. Greece and Spain are in a completely different situation to us, a bit like quoting Austria if you are discussing ocean going fishing rights.

It's not about their position, it is about what could happen under circumstances that the European union is not happy about.

And what is that? The EU is a grouping of 28 countries, how are they all going to gang up in some way and force us to do something major like that we don't want to do? Are they going to do the same to the Danes as well?

[ianrb]

McWigglebum4th said:

Wombat3 said:

Thought for the day:

What , I wonder, would be the effect if a very vocal "We've had enough of the tts, kick them out" campaign were to launch south of the border - perhaps supported by an MP or 3?

Probably the SNP screaming you can't make us leave

It would be very interesting to see a poll of how England, N. Ireland and Wales would respond to a proposed currency union with an independent Scotland.

[Siscar]

ianrb said:

It would be very interesting to see a poll of how England, N. Ireland and Wales would respond to a proposed currency union with an independent Scotland.

[Edinburger]

Siscar said:

ianrb said:

It would be very interesting to see a poll of how England, N. Ireland and Wales would respond to a proposed currency union with an independent Scotland.

And how many of those people fully understand the implications of a currency union? I'd suggest very few.

How many of those people have made their decision based on what thjey'd learnt from the media? I'd suggest most.

Seems like a pointless poll to me.