Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
Siscar said:
NoNeed said:
siscar said:
Of course we get a choice, nobody has any power to force it to happen. Equally there is no logic for us to do it. Other European countries are more jealous of our staying out of it than anything else.
I think you under estimate the power of the EU, You do however recognise the jealousy that will motivate them.AstonZagato said:
It is amusing to see that the number of pro-Yessers that have new membership durations, low post counts but high post counts in these threads. The cyber-Nats obviously think e are important. It is very flattering.
It is a pity they can't find anyone with even a whisker of a logical, well constructed, fact-based argument to send over.
To be fair, that's true of both sides. It is a pity they can't find anyone with even a whisker of a logical, well constructed, fact-based argument to send over.
Edinburger said:
AstonZagato said:
It is amusing to see that the number of pro-Yessers that have new membership durations, low post counts but high post counts in these threads. The cyber-Nats obviously think e are important. It is very flattering.
It is a pity they can't find anyone with even a whisker of a logical, well constructed, fact-based argument to send over.
To be fair, that's true of both sides. It is a pity they can't find anyone with even a whisker of a logical, well constructed, fact-based argument to send over.
No we do that for free
NoNeed said:
Siscar said:
NoNeed said:
siscar said:
Of course we get a choice, nobody has any power to force it to happen. Equally there is no logic for us to do it. Other European countries are more jealous of our staying out of it than anything else.
I think you under estimate the power of the EU, You do however recognise the jealousy that will motivate them.Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Anyone else banned on this changeover?
Surprised you were posting last night...Glad to see you made the cut and started this volume off with some fine contributions, incidentally.
Do you have any thoughts on what changes you'd like to see to our society, and how they will benefit Scotland?
Is this the biggest thread of all time on PH yet volume 5 over 2000 pages of posts.
Re the point made about what will need to be funded new civil service etc I would suggest this are very important. So on day 1 after a yes vote things carry on as they are 2 years latter lots of negociations and suddenly rUK has given scotland a raw deal (maybe) and then Phil "unemplyed" Jones goes to the post office to collect his giro and suddenly its short £10 or non existent.
Not saying this will happen but what if independance means cuts to some serivices surely you want to know before the vote not only what you will gain (country of your own, Freedom, end to evil torys, a UAE style soverign wealth fund etc) but also what you might have to loose...pension, currency, freedom of travel in europe etc.
Burger et al can say its all fine and will be worked out but would the fair thing to do not be to tell people in advnace so they can make an educated choice when they vote....
Re the point made about what will need to be funded new civil service etc I would suggest this are very important. So on day 1 after a yes vote things carry on as they are 2 years latter lots of negociations and suddenly rUK has given scotland a raw deal (maybe) and then Phil "unemplyed" Jones goes to the post office to collect his giro and suddenly its short £10 or non existent.
Not saying this will happen but what if independance means cuts to some serivices surely you want to know before the vote not only what you will gain (country of your own, Freedom, end to evil torys, a UAE style soverign wealth fund etc) but also what you might have to loose...pension, currency, freedom of travel in europe etc.
Burger et al can say its all fine and will be worked out but would the fair thing to do not be to tell people in advnace so they can make an educated choice when they vote....
Wombat3 said:
So onto volume 5 & still not a single straight answer to any of the myriad of unanswered questions.
Still, according to the latest wkers over Bath poll the tts are going to win! Its going to be comedy gold either way.
Even if they do win they still have to face the music, eventually when Pill "Pension age" Jones goes to get his pension finds there is no money in the pot, or his cousin "unemployed" finds job centers have closed, or his wife "Soap Fan no 1" find eastenders is gone (maybe a good thing), and there son "Gap year" suddenly can't work in europe.Still, according to the latest wkers over Bath poll the tts are going to win! Its going to be comedy gold either way.
Win or losse the SNP are not goingt to come out of this smelling of roses.
I think this is why Alex is trying to lose: ill-thought out White Paper, obvious lack of currency (ignore), near impossible to get EU membership (so ignore that too).
He wants to lose but narrowly. He can blame the Tories, claim a manifesto promise is met and continue as before with a few more powers. Bleat for devo-max occasionally and stay in power.
If they win, the dream will most likely turn to ashes. Lose too badly and the SNP get marginalised.
Fair play, it's going his way. But he must be getting a bit squeaky-bummed that they might actually win, then he is proper fooked - a man without a plan.
He wants to lose but narrowly. He can blame the Tories, claim a manifesto promise is met and continue as before with a few more powers. Bleat for devo-max occasionally and stay in power.
If they win, the dream will most likely turn to ashes. Lose too badly and the SNP get marginalised.
Fair play, it's going his way. But he must be getting a bit squeaky-bummed that they might actually win, then he is proper fooked - a man without a plan.
So yet another business leader, Samir Brikho of AMEC which supports over 5000 Scottish jobs, has warned of the dangers of independence and the billions and billions needed to dismantle ageing North Sea infrastructure which is nearing the end of it's life. Yet the SNP claim with full control of the economy and "huge resources" Scotland will offer an attractive and stable environment for business. How on earth could anyone consider the years of upheaval and uncertainty, if people are dumb enough to vote yes, as being a stable environment. And where are these huge resources coming from? Welcome to the crazy world of Kim Jong Alex and his friends. And still no one actually knows the truth of what we will get if there is a yes vote, other than it won't be what the SNP say it will.
Siscar said:
I'm reasonably familiar with Lisbon, albeit not an expert, but I'm failing to see what is that you refer to. Greece and Spain are in a completely different situation to us, a bit like quoting Austria if you are discussing ocean going fishing rights.
It's not about their position, it is about what could happen under circumstances that the European union is not happy about.NoNeed said:
Siscar said:
I'm reasonably familiar with Lisbon, albeit not an expert, but I'm failing to see what is that you refer to. Greece and Spain are in a completely different situation to us, a bit like quoting Austria if you are discussing ocean going fishing rights.
It's not about their position, it is about what could happen under circumstances that the European union is not happy about.McWigglebum4th said:
Wombat3 said:
Thought for the day:
What , I wonder, would be the effect if a very vocal "We've had enough of the tts, kick them out" campaign were to launch south of the border - perhaps supported by an MP or 3?
Probably the SNP screaming you can't make us leaveWhat , I wonder, would be the effect if a very vocal "We've had enough of the tts, kick them out" campaign were to launch south of the border - perhaps supported by an MP or 3?
Siscar said:
ianrb said:
It would be very interesting to see a poll of how England, N. Ireland and Wales would respond to a proposed currency union with an independent Scotland.
How many of those people have made their decision based on what thjey'd learnt from the media? I'd suggest most.
Seems like a pointless poll to me.
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