Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
Calvib said:
Sway said:
I thought the campaigners who so impressed you had all the answers?
What 'fiscal and social levers'? You don't have to state what will happen, but the levers available would be interesting.
No, that was not what I said. I said they had answers to my questions.What 'fiscal and social levers'? You don't have to state what will happen, but the levers available would be interesting.
Calvib said:
///ajd said:
Calvib said:
///ajd said:
Come on then Calvib, lets debate social inequality, and
1) what the SNP will do post independence, and how, and
2) why they haven't done something already
GO!
Independence will provide the maximum amount of flexibility in policy making to realise such changes.1) what the SNP will do post independence, and how, and
2) why they haven't done something already
GO!
You will have to ask the SNP specifically what their plans are. But they will have the 'fiscal and social levers' to realise change. See where the land lies on independence day - a lot will will happen between then and the yes vote.
Why has the SNP not acting already? They could have raised taxes to pay for more for the poor? They could even have given the money they gave to the rich for free uni and free presciptions to the poor. But they didn't.
What makes you think the SNP will be any different after independence? Its a fallacy.
What fiscal levers will they have? The economic arguments are that an iScot will be worse off - so how is that going to help the poor?
Scotland's GDP is the same as rUKs without oil.
14th richest country in the world compared to UK at 20th.
rUK will need to buy energy off of Scotland after independence (so that national grid will be staying exactly as it is, if we're nice to you
)You'll have no currency and will need to borrow at inflated rates - just as Ireland had to from the UK.
You'll have to start funding oil decommissioning from oil tax, a looming 35Bn. If you want to keep all the oil, you pay all the decommissioning.
rUK will not subsidise Scottish renewables anymore, and will invest in the rUK alone (dogger, severn etc.). Scotland will either have to add billions to its 3M domestic consumers, or abandon its renewable targets. rUK will just buy cheap Nuclear from France as required. Scotland will find energy issues tough once your 2 nuclear stations run out of steam in 2020.
Anymore gems?
Edited by ///ajd on Monday 21st July 21:12
Neonblau said:
Calvib said:
I'd rather have Ireland's debt than the UK's. That's the real unsustainable issue.
THE WHOLE WORLD DISAGREES WITH THAT. witness the Sovereign rating/bond yield of Ireland v the UK. You might not like it but that's the only measure that matters.Calvib said:
Borghetto said:
davepoth said:
A bit, probably. For a while. We got over Ireland.
We did have to make them a multi-billion pound emergency loan to them a few years back. Who remember's that eejit Salmond droning on about the arc of prosperity and telling all and sundry how Sterling was finished - what a prize dick.Calvib said:
See how that works out for the UK. The debt is being dealt with through further focussing of wealth into the pockets of a few. Who do you think we owe to? It will not be dealt without a major change in direction. But the elite don't want it dealt with - austerity makes them richer.
Well, that's one way of looking at it...Calvib said:
Not a drop of malt shall pass an Englishman's lips, eh? 
Pity for you that most of the Scottish whiskey industry is owned by foreigners, the largest being English (Diageo). Also most income is derived by the country from where the whiskey is sold - excise duties and vat. So your greatest product will enrich your southern neighbours more than your new country.AstonZagato said:
Calvib said:
Borghetto said:
davepoth said:
A bit, probably. For a while. We got over Ireland.
We did have to make them a multi-billion pound emergency loan to them a few years back. Who remember's that eejit Salmond droning on about the arc of prosperity and telling all and sundry how Sterling was finished - what a prize dick.Calvib said:
See how that works out for the UK. The debt is being dealt with through further focussing of wealth into the pockets of a few. Who do you think we owe to? It will not be dealt without a major change in direction. But the elite don't want it dealt with - austerity makes them richer.
You don't understand how this works do you?Much of the UK debt, unlike Ireland's, is actually drawn against its own projected income and to the Bank of England - in other words the UK owes money to itself. The expectation is that this debt will be quietly retired in a few years time.
If it's as bad as you claim why is a)Sterling strengthening and b) why is the UK's 10 year bond yield second only to Germany's in the EU (and the German rate is being driven by poor inflation numbers)?
I'll give you a clue - it isn't because "the elite" are rigging it - even they don't have that much clout.
If you don't know just say don't just post some made up angry pish.
Troubleatmill said:
If Calvib can be arsed to read through the thread; he will see that Scotland doesn't really provide that much energy to rUK.
And rUK can actually buy it cheaper from France.
It would be nice to have a debate; but sadly knowledgable hard facts seem to be outwith his grasp.
+1And rUK can actually buy it cheaper from France.
It would be nice to have a debate; but sadly knowledgable hard facts seem to be outwith his grasp.
He's the worst of the bunch so far.
Borghetto said:
I predict that now Calvib has received another good thrashing, he'll retire to lick his wounds. He will be replaced by one of the other nationalist idiots - they know who they are.
Afraid not. I think highlighting the clear bias on this thread has been fairly well achieved! The selection of information posted and combined with the omission of alternative views is quite appalling. And then when other information is provided there is the most subjective spin on it to attempt to bring it in line with the paradigm.The premature triumphalism of some posting on here is really quite amusing. It is clear that the union is broken - there would not be 40-50% (at the very least) of Scots wanting out of the Union if it was working. It cannot be fixed. We will be off sooner or later. The only genuine reason that I retain for perhaps wanting a no vote is what we are leaving the rUK to - that saddens me and I worry for friends who live down south. If you don't live in London and the SE, you are shafted.
The unionist economic 'arguments' are filled with so much deliberate obfuscation that it just stinks of desperation - it is a stupid tactic if you think that it'll convince folk by trying to bewilder them them pseudo-technical information.
There are so many issues bandied about on here as fact when, at the very least, there is significant uncertainty (largely down to Westmonster refusing to discuss important issues - e.g. they could resolve the EU issue by asking the question directly to the EU but they chose not to - I wonder why?!). I've shown this thread to undecided voters to let them see how the average English person regards the independence issue - you will glad to know you've moved a few people to a YES vote now!
I will return on Sept 19th - to wish you all the best in your future without Scotland.
(that's a Scottish love bomb right there).It must be a wind up.
Calvib, can you explain why you think the rUK should enter into an "energy union" with Scotland (as per the farcical white paper), and send billions of subsidy to Scotland (at the expense of rUK) as it does at the moment in the UK (where we're all together so it doesn't matter)?
This is the only thing supporting Scottish renewables at the moment - and the subsidy would stop with a Yes, just as sure as the RN frigates would be built in rUK.
Calvib, can you explain why you think the rUK should enter into an "energy union" with Scotland (as per the farcical white paper), and send billions of subsidy to Scotland (at the expense of rUK) as it does at the moment in the UK (where we're all together so it doesn't matter)?
This is the only thing supporting Scottish renewables at the moment - and the subsidy would stop with a Yes, just as sure as the RN frigates would be built in rUK.
Calvib said:
Borghetto said:
I predict that now Calvib has received another good thrashing, he'll retire to lick his wounds. He will be replaced by one of the other nationalist idiots - they know who they are.
Afraid not. I think highlighting the clear bias on this thread has been fairly well achieved! The selection of information posted and combined with the omission of alternative views is quite appalling. And then when other information is provided there is the most subjective spin on it to attempt to bring it in line with the paradigm.The premature triumphalism of some posting on here is really quite amusing. It is clear that the union is broken - there would not be 40-50% (at the very least) of Scots wanting out of the Union if it was working. It cannot be fixed. We will be off sooner or later. The only genuine reason that I retain for perhaps wanting a no vote is what we are leaving the rUK to - that saddens me and I worry for friends who live down south. If you don't live in London and the SE, you are shafted.
The unionist economic 'arguments' are filled with so much deliberate obfuscation that it just stinks of desperation - it is a stupid tactic if you think that it'll convince folk by trying to bewilder them them pseudo-technical information.
There are so many issues bandied about on here as fact when, at the very least, there is significant uncertainty (largely down to Westmonster refusing to discuss important issues - e.g. they could resolve the EU issue by asking the question directly to the EU but they chose not to - I wonder why?!). I've shown this thread to undecided voters to let them see how the average English person regards the independence issue - you will glad to know you've moved a few people to a YES vote now!
I will return on Sept 19th - to wish you all the best in your future without Scotland.
(that's a Scottish love bomb right there).
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