Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
pcvdriver said:
The clue was Indefinite Leave to Remain - this does not apply to EU nationals, meaning the other 6.5 billion on the planet. I'm not for one moment suggesting that all would want to come, merely that the rules should be the same for those from the rest of the planet, as currently enjoyed by those from (EU) Europe.
500 million is a good start. What active things is the current Scottish Government actually doing to encourage EU immigration? toppstuff said:
pcvdriver said:
yada yada yada
Immigration? Is that really the burning issue of the day? Really?!No Plan B for the currency. No answer to the thorny question of EU membership. But you want to talk about immigration?
Scotland could be holding a worthless pegged currency and be on the outside of the EU ( indeed, this is a probability not a remote possibility, given the FACTS of the matter ) in which case I can't imagine many people wanting to emigrate there..
Come on Nats. Make your country proud. Provide some answers to the BIG questions, rather than dither around on the wee ones and pretend no-one can see that you don't have a reply.
We are waiting.
confused_buyer said:
pcvdriver said:
Er.....because under current immigration regs - most wouldn't be allowed Indefinite Leave to Remain, Scotland's hands are tied, as Westminster currently controls immigration regs, or didn't you get that bit?
There are 27 EU members you can encourage immigration from without tied hands. That's a lot of people to start with.toppstuff said:
And in the unlikely event of a yes vote, Why should anyone in Edinburgh have any say in what sort of government they have in England? I guess the Nats will support the suggestion that Scotland is therefore excluded from the rUK general election in 2015 then, Yes?!
No, because until Independence is declared - the UK has not been dissolved and therefore Scottish constituencies require representation at Westminster to negotiate the Dissolution of the UK. Or don't you think that we are entitled to representation at Westminster until we become an independent country?pcvdriver said:
No, because until Independence is declared - the UK has not been dissolved and therefore Scottish constituencies require representation at Westminster to negotiate the Dissolution of the UK. Or don't you think that we are entitled to representation at Westminster until we become an independent country?
I actually agree with you on something. They should still have MP's. However, those MP's should do the decent thing and abstain on matters not affecting a soon-to-be independent Scotland. That said, as they currently fail to do the decent thing and still vote on matters only affecting England & Wales I doubt they will.confused_buyer said:
pcvdriver said:
No, because until Independence is declared - the UK has not been dissolved and therefore Scottish constituencies require representation at Westminster to negotiate the Dissolution of the UK. Or don't you think that we are entitled to representation at Westminster until we become an independent country?
I actually agree with you on something. They should still have MP's. However, those MP's should do the decent thing and abstain on matters not affecting a soon-to-be independent Scotland. That said, as they currently fail to do the decent thing and still vote on matters only affecting England & Wales I doubt they will.It is all BS though. A mere sideshow to the big issues - which PCV and his buddies continue to ignore.
toppstuff said:
confused_buyer said:
pcvdriver said:
No, because until Independence is declared - the UK has not been dissolved and therefore Scottish constituencies require representation at Westminster to negotiate the Dissolution of the UK. Or don't you think that we are entitled to representation at Westminster until we become an independent country?
I actually agree with you on something. They should still have MP's. However, those MP's should do the decent thing and abstain on matters not affecting a soon-to-be independent Scotland. That said, as they currently fail to do the decent thing and still vote on matters only affecting England & Wales I doubt they will.It is all BS though. A mere sideshow to the big issues - which PCV and his buddies continue to ignore.
Do you think he will be nice to Scotland?
If you vote YES you better hope for a slim tory majority in 2015 other with labour is going to f
k youMcWigglebum4th said:
And what if removal of the scottish MPs mean that Millibrain will lose his majority
Do you think he will be nice to Scotland?
If you vote YES you better hope for a slim tory majority in 2015 other with labour is going to fk you
Surely you're not trying to trot out the line that "Scotland's votes determine whether or not a Tory government is returned to Westminster or not, are you? Do you think he will be nice to Scotland?
If you vote YES you better hope for a slim tory majority in 2015 other with labour is going to f
k youIf you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
pcvdriver said:
Surely you're not trying to trot out the line that "Scotland's votes determine whether or not a Tory government is returned to Westminster or not, are you?
If you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
I think he's speculating about a Labour Government in the UK elected with, say, a 20 majority in 2015.If you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
It would be interesting if it happened.
pcvdriver said:
Surely you're not trying to trot out the line that "Scotland's votes determine whether or not a Tory government is returned to Westminster or not, are you?
If you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
With the current polls a slim Labour majority is quite likely. It is therefore entirely possible the majority will come from scottish seats. In such a case, it is very much in a Milliband PM's interests to deliberately send the seperation negotiations into a spiral of stalemate. If the Yes vote is slim then I can even see pressure for a "confirming" referendum on the actual terms developing.If you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
pcvdriver said:
Surely you're not trying to trot out the line that "Scotland's votes determine whether or not a Tory government is returned to Westminster or not, are you?
If you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
Remove all scottish MPs from west ministerIf you are, then you are truly mistaken. It can quite easily be shown from electoral results since 1802 (and has been shown many times on Vol 4) that this is total bunkum.
What party is in government?
Or are you too dim to realise we have a coalition
oh and 1955
50.1% of scottish voters voted for the consecrative parties
and just for our nat friends
in 1955 50.1% of scottish voters were english traitorous scum who should be killed to death with SPOONS!!!!
Edited by McWigglebum4th on Tuesday 15th April 18:52
Siscar said:
If there is no currency union, what is plan B?
If the EU President et al are correct in their views on continued EU membership, what is Plan B?
How do negotiations work when the only people who have a vote on the relevant Act are MPs, most of which are English?
Any answers?
No chance. This stuff is just ignored.. If the EU President et al are correct in their views on continued EU membership, what is Plan B?
How do negotiations work when the only people who have a vote on the relevant Act are MPs, most of which are English?
Any answers?
toppstuff said:
Siscar said:
If there is no currency union, what is plan B?
If the EU President et al are correct in their views on continued EU membership, what is Plan B?
How do negotiations work when the only people who have a vote on the relevant Act are MPs, most of which are English?
Any answers?
No chance. This stuff is just ignored.. If the EU President et al are correct in their views on continued EU membership, what is Plan B?
How do negotiations work when the only people who have a vote on the relevant Act are MPs, most of which are English?
Any answers?
So when all these people are persuaded to live in Scotland, and they get to retirement age, who will pay their pensions? More immigrants? and then who pays their pensions? Plus where will they live? And where are all the jobs coming from that don't exist at the moment? Especially since half the jobs will be disappearing down south. It doesn't make sense but then nothing to do with independence does.
And just because you are happy with lots of people moving here, I can guarantee a lot of people won't be when they feel they are losing out on jobs and council houses etc, when their neighbourhood changes, as can be seen in a lot of towns in the UK already. Especially if they are already struggling under the rule of president for life AS.
And just because you are happy with lots of people moving here, I can guarantee a lot of people won't be when they feel they are losing out on jobs and council houses etc, when their neighbourhood changes, as can be seen in a lot of towns in the UK already. Especially if they are already struggling under the rule of president for life AS.
confused_buyer said:
I've never noticed that Scotland embraces immigrants any better than elsewhere in the UK. Indeed, anecdotal evidence I see in Scotland suggests just the opposite. If immigration isn't an issue in Scotland I suspect it is because there isn't much - increase it and I bet it will become an issue very quickly.
Much of southern England (and elsewhere) has a great deal of recent immigration. On the whole, most people do not in fact have a big problem with it. Yes there are tensions over housing etc. but don't kid yourself that wouldn't happen in Scotland with the same sort of numbers.
Only if population density gets to be as out of control, through lack of proper planning as S E England.Much of southern England (and elsewhere) has a great deal of recent immigration. On the whole, most people do not in fact have a big problem with it. Yes there are tensions over housing etc. but don't kid yourself that wouldn't happen in Scotland with the same sort of numbers.
Alpacaman said:
So when all these people are persuaded to live in Scotland, and they get to retirement age, who will pay their pensions? More immigrants? and then who pays their pensions? Plus where will they live? And where are all the jobs coming from that don't exist at the moment? Especially since half the jobs will be disappearing down south. It doesn't make sense but then nothing to do with independence does.
And just because you are happy with lots of people moving here, I can guarantee a lot of people won't be when they feel they are losing out on jobs and council houses etc, when their neighbourhood changes, as can be seen in a lot of towns in the UK already. Especially if they are already struggling under the rule of president for life AS.
But.... someone else will be in charge by then.. dust hands... not my problem.And just because you are happy with lots of people moving here, I can guarantee a lot of people won't be when they feel they are losing out on jobs and council houses etc, when their neighbourhood changes, as can be seen in a lot of towns in the UK already. Especially if they are already struggling under the rule of president for life AS.
Alpacaman said:
So when all these people are persuaded to live in Scotland, and they get to retirement age, who will pay their pensions? More immigrants? and then who pays their pensions? Plus where will they live? And where are all the jobs coming from that don't exist at the moment? Especially since half the jobs will be disappearing down south. It doesn't make sense but then nothing to do with independence does.
And just because you are happy with lots of people moving here, I can guarantee a lot of people won't be when they feel they are losing out on jobs and council houses etc, when their neighbourhood changes, as can be seen in a lot of towns in the UK already. Especially if they are already struggling under the rule of president for life AS.
The Economic Research Institute, who have conducted extensive research into this very issue have concluded that it will take 50 years things to reach critical mass. So over the next 50 years we have plenty of time to adjust, prepare and plan for the numbers we require. And just because you are happy with lots of people moving here, I can guarantee a lot of people won't be when they feel they are losing out on jobs and council houses etc, when their neighbourhood changes, as can be seen in a lot of towns in the UK already. Especially if they are already struggling under the rule of president for life AS.
Yes, these things will cost money. Yes, we may even have to borrow to pay for things initially. However it should be remembered that after the 2nd WW we had much higher levels of borrowing than we have today and this did not prove to be detrimental to the levels of growth we experienced at the time.
No country is entirely without debt, or very rarely so, an analogy would be that not everyone, apart from a few wealthy people can afford to buy their home outright without recourse to obtaining a mortgage, like the rest of us mere mortals have to.
....As for president for life, now you're just being silly or childish - I can't quite make my mind up which. If Alex drops the ball and fails to deliver in the future - then he will be voted out and it will be up to the electorate to decide who will be handed the keys.
Edited by pcvdriver on Tuesday 15th April 19:20
pcvdriver said:
Specifically? Well for starters, immigration (there are other issues too, but for now let's stick with immigration). Whilst I appreciate that the sentiment from within the M25 is that "Eff Off Jonny Foreigner - we're full", as has been espoused by quite a few of the usual suspects (I won't go into naming and shaming individuals) - in other areas of the country we are not at bursting point.
In Scotland (there is the same issue, but to a slightly lesser extent South of the border) we have a population of working age that is shrinking and a population of pension age that is growing.
It has been calculated by the Institute of Economic Research that in 50 years, if nothing is done to address this problem, then we will reach critical mass where we will not be able to support our pensioners. We simply aren't having kids at the rate we used to a generation or two ago (this goes for both North and South of the border).
Therefore we need to massively encourage immigration, not restrict it, as has become various parties in Westminster's MO for some time now. Westminster and Whitehall make kneejerk reactions just because some wooly-headed numpties make the crack-pot assertions that they're all coming over here and taking our jobs.
At the current rate - we'll all be working well into our 80's by the time I retire - instead of being able to retire at 65/66 at present.
Westminster will always pander to the wishes of the needs of London first, so rational debate with Westminster as regards immigration will never happen, as Westminster will never allow us (Scotland) to make decisions regarding immigration. I'd vote for independence on an immigration ticket alone.
The nukes thing.....would be just the icing on the cake
Who then funds the pensions of these immigrants when they reach retirement? Ever increasing numbers of immigrants? Exponential population growth to support a ponzi scheme is madness.In Scotland (there is the same issue, but to a slightly lesser extent South of the border) we have a population of working age that is shrinking and a population of pension age that is growing.
It has been calculated by the Institute of Economic Research that in 50 years, if nothing is done to address this problem, then we will reach critical mass where we will not be able to support our pensioners. We simply aren't having kids at the rate we used to a generation or two ago (this goes for both North and South of the border).
Therefore we need to massively encourage immigration, not restrict it, as has become various parties in Westminster's MO for some time now. Westminster and Whitehall make kneejerk reactions just because some wooly-headed numpties make the crack-pot assertions that they're all coming over here and taking our jobs.
At the current rate - we'll all be working well into our 80's by the time I retire - instead of being able to retire at 65/66 at present.
Westminster will always pander to the wishes of the needs of London first, so rational debate with Westminster as regards immigration will never happen, as Westminster will never allow us (Scotland) to make decisions regarding immigration. I'd vote for independence on an immigration ticket alone.
The nukes thing.....would be just the icing on the cake
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