Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[Rick_1138]

Regarding this debate on the 5th of August, I really don't know if I can be bothered to watch it, it wont cover any new ground, will be mostly bks and just wind up the extremes on both sides.

Roll on Sep 18th so we can be rid of this waste of time.

[Moonhawk]

Rick_1138 said:

Regarding this debate on the 5th of August, I really don't know if I can be bothered to watch it, it wont cover any new ground, will be mostly bks and just wind up the extremes on both sides.

Roll on Sep 18th so we can be rid of this waste of time.

It's simply a convenient soap box for Salmond to make a final last ditch push to convert any fence sitters with latent nationalistic tendencies (not that I have anyone in particular in mind ).......probably why it's being held so late in the day.

If this had happened months ago - it would likely be forgotten come the 18th.

[mcdjl]

There are a lot of sayings that seem apt to me regards the Scotish independence campaign. Given that the the 'Yes' side are apparently doing lots of promoting etc but unable to give any substantive answers and the 'No' campaign apparently need to be out more, I'm wondering which vessels it is that are said to make most noise.

[Moonhawk]

mcdjl said:

There are a lot of sayings that seem apt to me regards the Scotish independence campaign. Given that the the 'Yes' side are apparently doing lots of promoting etc but unable to give any substantive answers and the 'No' campaign apparently need to be out more, I'm wondering which vessels it is that are said to make most noise.

Plenty to choose from.......some seem to ring very true.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/loudest...

It's odd. Many yes supporters have questioned why the rUK is so desperate to keep Scotland - yet the no camp are now being criticised for not campaigning hard enough (which hardly sounds like the actions of somebody desperate).......so which is it?

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 30th July 11:16

[Welshbeef]

As Salmond appears to be refusing to any TV debates before the postal vote what would happen if ADarling refuses post the postal vote as such no TV debate happens at all and it prevents Salmond any pulpit to make one last stand?


A genuine tactic which would scupper the Pro Yes campaign.

[A.J.M]

Burger.

I live just outside Glasgow, I got a small booklet through my door a few weeks ago from the better together group.
It had lots of pro union point, all laid out in easy to read text, nice colours and good font etc.

I'm sure everyone got a copy of this. Did you? If so, did you read it?

There is no point in DC coming to debate, it will turn into a bitter Tory bashing, he's wise to keep out of it, otherwise the yes mob have more ammo for their anti Tory and English hatred.

How you can claim your still on the fence is laughable, every point a yes voter has brought forward has been destroyed by facts and law.
Even your squirrel flag posts have been shown to be tripe, as long as it's of standard size, it CAN be brought in.

Have you, this close to the vote, heard ANY yes group give even a half arsed attempt at start up costs?
I haven't, bar the £200M which the person who calculated it, said is wrong...

If not, surely you deserve to know what it will be?

[Rollin]

Seems he wants Cameron to come round his house with the information on a silver tray and read it whilst Darling gives him a manicure.

With this issue being so important, can fence sitters not be bothered enough to actually seek out information for themselves.

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

My last few posts answer most of your points.

I find it odd that BT don't want to talk to me and my neighbours about why I should vote No.

So WTF have you been doing here for the past 3 years

Standing firmly with your fingers in your ears screaming SQUIRREL

[Moonhawk]

Edinburger said:

I find it odd that BT don't want to talk to me and my neighbours about why I should vote No.

Perhaps they simply feel that, as somebody responsible enough to be given a vote in this matter - you are more than capable of finding and utilising the information they have generated in order to make an informed decision.

Do you really need people knocking door to door, preaching the benefits of the union?

[barryrs]

Moonhawk said:

Edinburger said:

I find it odd that BT don't want to talk to me and my neighbours about why I should vote No.

Perhaps they simply feel that, as somebody responsible enough to be given a vote in this matter - you are more than capable of finding and utilising the information they have generated in order to make an informed decision.

Do you really need people knocking door to door, preaching the benefits of the union?

Perhaps the Yes posters we all suspect are outside his house put off the BT campaigners

[Alpacaman]

A.J.M said:

Burger.

I live just outside Glasgow, I got a small booklet through my door a few weeks ago from the better together group.
It had lots of pro union point, all laid out in easy to read text, nice colours and good font etc.

I'm sure everyone got a copy of this. Did you? If so, did you read it?

That would be the leaflet one of the Nationalists (I can't remember which, they are all as mad as each other) said was full of lies. I asked him three times just to tell me one lie that was in there, strangely not once did he answer me. How anyone can support people who have no answers to any of the important questions is beyond me.

[bigkeeko]

Troubleatmill said:

Salmond says - Scottish Shipbuilding will continue to build UK warships.
UK MOD says- No warships contracts outside of UK.

Defence, currency, EU

SNP say "something that doesn't stand scrutiny"
Someone else. rUK, EU Presidents, EU Vice Presidents, World Leaders, Union Reps, Corporates, Supermarkets etc etc say "SNP are wrong"

I had these very points aired yesterday at work with one of the very few YES voters I work with. All these valid points fell on deaf ears and he went straight onto his Nat trump card. Oil and how we were being `ripped off`.

I basically said even the most sanguine of individuals know the oil won`t last forever. 2050/60 according to experts (that nats say are lying) and we simply cannot base the future of a country on a limited commodity as unpredictable as oil.

I then said If the bulk of our economy is predicated on oil production then we`re a one trick pony and the reality is that pony hasn`t got long to live. Are we really willing to bank the future of our people on 30 odd years of oil?

I was then accused of fancy words, scaremongering (shock*) and being a traitor and having `no balls`.

[Troubleatmill]

bigkeeko said:

Troubleatmill said:

Salmond says - Scottish Shipbuilding will continue to build UK warships.
UK MOD says- No warships contracts outside of UK.

Defence, currency, EU

SNP say "something that doesn't stand scrutiny"
Someone else. rUK, EU Presidents, EU Vice Presidents, World Leaders, Union Reps, Corporates, Supermarkets etc etc say "SNP are wrong"

I had these very points aired yesterday at work with one of the very few YES voters I work with. All these valid points fell on deaf ears and he went straight onto his Nat trump card. Oil and how we were being `ripped off`.

I basically said even the most sanguine of individuals know the oil won`t last forever. 2050/60 according to experts (that nats say are lying) and we simply cannot base the future of a country on a limited commodity as unpredictable as oil.

I then said If the bulk of our economy is predicated on oil production then we`re a one trick pony and the reality is that pony hasn`t got long to live. Are we really willing to bank the future of our people on 30 odd years of oil?

I was then accused of fancy words, scaremongering (shock*) and being a traitor and having `no balls`.

Then ask them - Why does an independent Scotland with all the oil it will have; still has John Swinney writing that he will have to cut benefits and defence spend as they can't afford it?

Edited by Troubleatmill on Wednesday 30th July 12:22

[Wombat3]

Moonhawk said:

Edinburger said:

I find it odd that BT don't want to talk to me and my neighbours about why I should vote No.

Perhaps they simply feel that, as somebody responsible enough to be given a vote in this matter - you are more than capable of finding and utilising the information they have generated in order to make an informed decision.

Do you really need people knocking door to door, preaching the benefits of the union?

This whole "the campaigns are rubbish" thing is risible & it smacks of yet more of the victim mentality.

Enough information is out there in abundance for any sane person to make a decision, and you don't have to look far to find it.

Those who are prepared to ignore it all for the sake of God knows what (flags & facepaint?) are at liberty to do so provided that they have the balls to say, "you know what? I know its going to be bloody hard but for me its worth a gamble". Fair enough, good luck to you, don't expect me to pick up the bill though.

Those that are blaming Westminster for not cuddling them enough & giving them everything they want in the way they want it really need to STFU and grow up. It all smacks of "look at us , we're special, we want to be the centre of attention".

It boils down to less than 3% of the UK population who's heads are so far up their own arses they've forgotten what daylight looks like. Come Sept 19th they really, really need to be told to fk off & shut up in no uncertain terms & know that the rest of us think they are utter, selfish wkers

[Axionknight]

Troubleatmill said:

Then ask them - Why does an independent Scotland with all the oil it will have; still has John Swinney writing that he will have to cut benefits and defence spend as they can't afford it?

Edited by Troubleatmill on Wednesday 30th July 12:22

Closet Tory unionist, duh.

[Welshbeef]

Troubleatmill said:

Then ask them - Why does an independent Scotland with all the oil it will have; still has John Swinney writing that he will have to cut benefits and defence spend as they can't afford it?

Edited by Troubleatmill on Wednesday 30th July 12:22

But you are forgetting Scotland is the 15th wealthiest country in the world no less! Bigger than Japan France and the UK. Sadly the issue is the spend is so high and the legacy debt so high that it has a huge noise round its neck. In fact the oil is a bonus they keep mentioning well the assumed tax revenues for the next 30 years will barely pay off the legacy debt so no oil fund can be created until the slate is clean.


Any Scot realistically think rUK wouldn't put the Oil as guarantor on the debt and that all its tax revenue goes directly to paying it off first - OR instantly Scotland go to market and borrow £150billon to pay rUK then more than happy with that outcome too. Either way oil tax revenue cannot be used to balance the books for ongoing govt spending as its already fully committed.

[Walford]

A.J.M said:

Burger.



There is no point in DC coming to debate, it will turn into a bitter Tory bashing, he's wise to keep out of it, otherwise the yes mob have more ammo for their anti Tory and English hatred.

and that would be great for a Tory rUK, so why not

[Welshbeef]

Walford said:

A.J.M said:

Burger.



There is no point in DC coming to debate, it will turn into a bitter Tory bashing, he's wise to keep out of it, otherwise the yes mob have more ammo for their anti Tory and English hatred.

and that would be great for a Tory rUK, so why not

But at the last general election Tory vote in Scotland was 19% SNP was 21% yet due to boundaries SNP had critical mass to win seats. So if anyone keeps saying Scotland is a socialist region of the country that's not true at all SNP are barely more popular than Tory scum...hmm what say the Prp Yeasers

[A.J.M]

Welshbeef said:

Walford said:

A.J.M said:

Burger.



There is no point in DC coming to debate, it will turn into a bitter Tory bashing, he's wise to keep out of it, otherwise the yes mob have more ammo for their anti Tory and English hatred.

and that would be great for a Tory rUK, so why not

But at the last general election Tory vote in Scotland was 19% SNP was 21% yet due to boundaries SNP had critical mass to win seats. So if anyone keeps saying Scotland is a socialist region of the country that's not true at all SNP are barely more popular than Tory scum...hmm what say the Prp Yeasers

Because i would quite like to not have to move in the next 18 months due to idiots voting for an idea what has 0 economic basis behind it.
I like being part of the uk, i like being both Scottish and British.

They would use DC to their advantage and stir up more anti Tory, Thatcher garbage and plenty of people will swallow it.

[Moonhawk]

Welshbeef said:

But at the last general election Tory vote in Scotland was 19% SNP was 21% yet due to boundaries SNP had critical mass to win seats. So if anyone keeps saying Scotland is a socialist region of the country that's not true at all SNP are barely more popular than Tory scum...hmm what say the Prp Yeasers

Yep - I have highlighted this before. The number of seats held does not necessarily reflect the will of the people. The first past the post system hides much of the detail of the underlying popular vote.

In the 2010 general election - the Tories only managed to win 1 seat out of 59 (1.7%) despite gaining 16.7% of the vote (according to the BBC).

If you look at "number of seats won", Tory support appears to be only a tiny minority - when in fact 1 in 6 people who voted in 2010, voted Tory.