Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[McWigglebum4th]

More tory english traitors are speaking out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/...

[bigkeeko]

McWigglebum4th said:

More tory english traitors are speaking out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/...

Thats just more lies, bluster, bluff and scaremongering if you ask me.

[confused_buyer]

McWigglebum4th said:

More tory english traitors are speaking out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/...

Is this bit right:

" The First Minster refused to comment but an SNP spokesman said the Westminster parties had blocked a ‘more powers’ option appearing on the referendum ballot paper and a Yes vote is needed for this to happen. "

So SNP spokesperson says if we get a Yes we won't actually go through with it but use it as a negotiating tactic to get more powers?!

[Axionknight]

The idea of further devolution, or "devo max" was touted as a potential option on the ballot paper. It was dismissed by "Wastemonster" who said that the only tolerable options were in, or oot.

[Moonhawk]

confused_buyer said:

Is this bit right:

" The First Minster refused to comment but an SNP spokesman said the Westminster parties had blocked a ‘more powers’ option appearing on the referendum ballot paper and a Yes vote is needed for this to happen. "

So SNP spokesperson says if we get a Yes we won't actually go through with it but use it as a negotiating tactic to get more powers?!

I think he is referring to the 'devo max' option that David Cameron poo-pooed.

I guess the SNP could do that - "The Scottish people voted for independence - but after having looked at it, it's probably going to be more difficult than we thought - and so we are willing to stay if you give us devo-max".

Not sure how well that would go down with hard line nationalists though.

[confused_buyer]

Moonhawk said:

Not sure how well that would go down with hard line nationalists though.

I don't think it would go down very well in rUK either. I think the mood is very much that they are either in or out - not half and half attempting to have their cake and eat it. Particularly when many in rUK think Scotland already gets its cake having eaten it.

[George111]

Ridgemont said:

Moonhawk said:

Well - the decision of a small minority is going to affect the entire population of the UK - so don't you agree that people should be entitled to their opinion.

Indeed. I'm sad I don't have a vote but I sure as hell have an opinion.

Anyhow; this frankly unbelievable but possibly not surprising link to an admission from a yeser that the indy arguments appear to be crock to any observer with an ounce of common sense;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/...

Nuggets of hilarity from SNP ex provost;

"Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work"
Alex Salmond is a very able person and he is very, very convincing but over the last number of months he seems to be having doubts about things,” he said.

“I look at his performance – we don’t have an answer with regards to the currency, no answer at all. We don’t have any answer on whether we will be in the Common Market (EU) or not.”
He added: “I’ve got a feeling they are not too sure themselves how it is going to work – people within the party and people within the hierarchy of the party.”

Edited by Ridgemont on Saturday 2nd August 14:17

It's clear to anybody with even a passing understanding of modern economics that the SNP don't want to give answers to many questions because they know it will cost Scotland billions of pounds (or more likely euros) over the next 30-50 years and that's assuming they develop an industry to take over from oil. The alternative is a drastic cut back on social spending and investment which would see many financially productive Scots leaving for other parts of the EU. They are in a financial no-win situation for the next generation if they vote yes, but that's not the point, surely, the point is do they want independence ?

[HD Adam]

Axionknight said:

The idea of further devolution, or "devo max" was touted as a potential option on the ballot paper. It was dismissed by "Wastemonster" who said that the only tolerable options were in, or oot.

Quite. Stay as you are or work it out for yourselves.

It must be pretty clear by now that Salmond is banking on and praying to lose the vote by a small margin.

If they lose, he can bang on forevermore about how it would have been "better" and blame the English Tory Oppressors for everything.

If they win, Oh st!!!!

[confused_buyer]

HD Adam said:

Quite. Stay as you are or work it out for yourselves.

It must be pretty clear by now that Salmond is banking on and praying to lose the vote by a small margin.

If they lose, he can bang on forevermore about how it would have been "better" and blame the English Tory Oppressors for everything.

If they win, Oh st!!!!

He has a very frightened rabbit in the headlamps look about him at the moment. Despite the polls he is evidently terrified he will win. I bet he, and others at the top in the SNP, will be voting no.

[mybrainhurts]

confused_buyer said:

HD Adam said:

Quite. Stay as you are or work it out for yourselves.

It must be pretty clear by now that Salmond is banking on and praying to lose the vote by a small margin.

If they lose, he can bang on forevermore about how it would have been "better" and blame the English Tory Oppressors for everything.

If they win, Oh st!!!!

He has a very frightened rabbit in the headlamps look about him at the moment. Despite the polls he is evidently terrified he will win. I bet he, and others at the top in the SNP, will be voting no.

Not sure about that. He's started a recruitment campaign for the Scottish Army already

Behold...

[bigkeeko]

Cracks are appearing


http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-...


Still, it won`t make a jot of difference to any Yes voters supposing 90% of businesses were moving out.

Edited by bigkeeko on Saturday 2nd August 18:17

[andy_s]

bigkeeko said:

Cracks are appearing


http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-...


Still, it won`t make a jot of difference to any Yes voters supposing 90% of businesses were moving out.

Edited by bigkeeko on Saturday 2nd August 18:17

"A Scottish Government spokesman said: "An independent Scotland will continue in European Union membership, and the only threat to that status - and Scottish businesses' access to a single market of more than half a billion people - is Westminster's proposed in-out referendum on EU membership, which threatens to take Scotland out of Europe against our wishes."

An intelligent remark regarding the relocation not being to England as an independent Eckdom would mean a Westminster con govt which would lead to a referendum on EU membership anyway.

[HenryJM]

andy_s said:

"A Scottish Government spokesman said: "An independent Scotland will continue in European Union membership, and the only threat to that status - and Scottish businesses' access to a single market of more than half a billion people - is Westminster's proposed in-out referendum on EU membership, which threatens to take Scotland out of Europe against our wishes."

And therein lies the big problem with this referendum, the Yes side is fighting it by telling lies.

There is absolutely no evidence, no realistic concept of how EU membership would be continued for Scotland. Everyone has told them that it won't happen and the Nats response is to bluff, bluster and lie.

[Welshbeef]

Let's say that a federal set up happened but that was for all 4 regions if the UK. In doing so Barnett formulae would vanish and instead a per capita grant would be given or a per capita charge paid to Westminster for MOD nd l the national interest stuff.

All taxes earned within the regions would be kept and everyone moves to a flat tax system.



Big problem for Scotland would be hold on were getting less - response well you has tax powers to resolve that issue that is how a federal set up works.

[Beati Dogu]

andy_s said:

"A Scottish Government spokesman said: "An independent Scotland will continue in European Union membership, and the only threat to that status - and Scottish businesses' access to a single market of more than half a billion people - is Westminster's proposed in-out referendum on EU membership, which threatens to take Scotland out of Europe against our wishes."

An intelligent remark regarding the relocation not being to England as an independent Eckdom would mean a Westminster con govt which would lead to a referendum on EU membership anyway.

Has anyone asked the National Socialist SNP, how they dare bleat on about "independence", when they still want the majority of their laws to come directly from Brussels as they do already?

Seems odd to be that they're happy for Scotland to become just another unimportant client state on the periphery of the EU Reich. Where's their ambition?

Kinda funny that the Tories, Libs and Labour can't point this glaring fact out, as they're all Euro traitors too.

[Welshbeef]

What are the Pro Yes Green Party views on EU and currency and pensions?

Do they share the SNPs or is there an alternate option for a yes voter?

[Wombat3]

confused_buyer said:

McWigglebum4th said:

More tory english traitors are speaking out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/...

Is this bit right:

" The First Minster refused to comment but an SNP spokesman said the Westminster parties had blocked a ‘more powers’ option appearing on the referendum ballot paper and a Yes vote is needed for this to happen. "

So SNP spokesperson says if we get a Yes we won't actually go through with it but use it as a negotiating tactic to get more powers?!

SNP too stupid to realise you can't have 3 options on a referendum ballot paper.

eg options A, B & C poll 30%, 30% & 40%.

Option C carries the day when a combined 1.5 times as many people voted for something different.

[Wombat3]

Welshbeef said:

Let's say that a federal set up happened but that was for all 4 regions if the UK. In doing so Barnett formulae would vanish and instead a per capita grant would be given or a per capita charge paid to Westminster for MOD nd l the national interest stuff.

All taxes earned within the regions would be kept and everyone moves to a flat tax system.

Big problem for Scotland would be hold on were getting less - response well you has tax powers to resolve that issue that is how a federal set up works.

Exactly what will happen. Salmond is going to get stitched up like a Kipper. He'll get his extra powers and additional autonomy, and when he does the Westminster subsidy will dry up over night.

[Walford]

All this cr@p that Scotland carnt do it why not they are not the first

Country Date Year of Independence Notes
Afghanistan 19 August 1919
Antigua Barbuda 1 November 1981
Australia 1 January 1986 Australia Act 1986
Bahamas 10 July 1973
Bahrain 16 December 1971 15 August 1971
Barbados 30 November 1966 Barbados Independence Act 1966
Belize 21 September 1981 September Celebrations of Belize
Botswana 30 September 1966
Brunei 1 January 1984
Canada 1 July 1982 Canada Act 1982
Cyprus 1 October 1960 16 August 1960, but Cyprus Independence Day celebrated on 1
Dominica 3 November 1978
Egypt 28 February 1922
Fiji 10 October 1970
The Gambia 18 February 1965
Ghana 6 March 1957
Grenada 7 February 1974 Independence Day (Grenada)
Guyana 26 May 1966
India 15 August 1947
Israel 14 May 1948
Iraq 3 October 1932


Rep of Ireland 24 April (Easter Monday) 1922 Proclamation of the Irish Republic
Jamaica 6 August 1962
Jordan 25 May 1946
Kenya 12 December 1963
Kiribati 12 July 1979
Kuwait 25 February 1961
Lesotho 4 October 1966
Malawi 6 July 1964
Malaysia 31 August 1957 Hari Merdeka
Maldives 26 July 1965
Malta 21 September 1964
Mauritius 12 March 1968
Myanmar 4 January 1948
Nauru 31 January 1968 Independence from the UK, Australia and NZ 31 January 1968.
New Zealand 6 February 1986 Constitution Act 1986
Nigeria 1 October 1960
Pakistan 14 August 1947 Yaum e Azadi. Independence from the United Kingdom on 27 Ramadan ul Mubarik, 14 August 1947
Papua N Guinea 16 September 1975 Independence gained from Australia the administering power.
Qatar 3 September 1971 Qatar National Day
Saint Lucia 22 February 1979
Samoa 1 January 1962 Independence granted by New Zealand the administrative country.
Saint Kitts and Nevis 19 September 1983
Seychelles 29 June 1976
Sierra Leone 27 April 1961
Solomon Islands 7 July 1978
South Africa 11 December 1961 1931 adoption of Statute of Westminster. Not a public holiday.
Sri Lanka 4 February 1948 4 February 1948, Sri Lanka had their independence. After nearly 150 years of the UK ruling the country. Gained independence as the Dominion of Ceylon
Somalia Somaliland 26 June 1960 Gained Independence as part of Somalia. Unrecognised independent state declared in 1991 during the crisis in Somalia covering the same territory as British Somaliland as the SomalilandRepublic of Somaliland.
Sudan 1 January 1956 South Sudan gained independence from Sudan on 9 July 2011.
Swaziland 6 September 1968
Tanzania 9 December 1961
Trinidad and Tobago 31 August 1962
Tuvalu 1 October 1978
Uganda 9 October 1962
United Arab Emirates 2 December 1971 National Day (United Arab Emirates)
United States 4 July 1776 Fourth of July. Declaration of Independence from the Kingdom of Great Britain in 1776
Vanuatu 30 July 1980 Independence from United Kingdom and France in 1980
Yemen 30 November 1967 South Yemen 1967
Zambia 24 October 1964
Zimbabwe 18 April 1980

[bigkeeko]

Was on the Yes Scotland facebook page. Man! Some tough reading there. The only reason I made my way to the page because my mate that`s been on the dole for about 8 years had `liked` it. Kinda says it all.