Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[Mojocvh]

Axionknight said:

barryrs said:

Oil and gas UK are neutral on the subject according to the press realise.

Oil and gas people on the other hand are a recruitment consultant that carried out a poll that suggested a pro yes was the majority.

I think people are confusing the two and putting more gravitas on oil and gas people.

My mistake, O&G people do back the yes vote, though - its just me getting confused again.

Just wait until the SG add 15% onto and drop the top rate threshold as part of the Indy effect..remember they have already admitted that tax HAS to rise.

[Alpacaman]

If you want to do a completely biased survey to try and push you towards voting yes here you go-

http://www.independentscotland.org/content/what-to...

I love the fact if you say you want to stay in the EU it suggests you should vote yes, utterly barmy.

[Axionknight]

That website is brilliant.

[Edinburger]

MintyChris said:

toppstuff said:

I am coming to the conclusion that nationalism is a curse of the modern world at the moment.

These things go in cycles. Right now we are in a cycle where nationalism is on the rise - even from privileged, fat parts of the world with frankly little to complain about.

Nationalism is the opposite to what I think is needed. The risks and uncertainties of the world these days are best faced through cooperation and working together.

Nationalism represents a school of thought that celebrates division. It encourages people to highlight the differences they have between each other, rather than focus on what we all have in common.

Nationalism is ugly and divisive. It usually fails too. Ultimately, countries and peoples with common aims tend to group together.

Will be glad when this is all over. Salmond is a misguided, puffed-up, egotistical wee man. Thankfully this will soon be over.

Albert Einstein said:

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.

Apparently really intelligent and enlightened people are the ones supporting this nationalist movement. Someone should have told Mr Einstein that.

With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.

There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.

Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.

Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

[Rollin]

Edinburger said:

With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.

There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.

Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.

Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

Who are you to say what version of nationalism other yes voters support?

[NoNeed]

Edinburger said:

With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.

There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.

Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.

Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

So it's just Jews and the English the SNP don't like? well that's OK then as long as those with dark skin are welcomed.

[Edinburger]

Rollin said:

Edinburger said:

With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.

There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.

Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.

Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

Who are you to say what version of nationalism other yes voters support?

I'm talking about the crux of this debate. There will always be crackpots and eccentrics.

[Edinburger]

NoNeed said:

Edinburger said:

With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.

There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.

Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.

Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

So it's just Jews and the English the SNP don't like? well that's OK then as long as those with dark skin are welcomed.

Are you some sort of forum-stalker?

[NoNeed]

Edinburger said:

Are you some sort of forum-stalker?

No, I just don't like your brand of nationalism, which is just as dangerous and divisive as any other form of nationalism so thought your post warranted reply.

[Edinburger]

NoNeed said:

Edinburger said:

Are you some sort of forum-stalker?

No, I just don't like your brand of nationalism, which is just as dangerous and divisive as any other form of nationalism so thought your post warranted reply.

Then I suspect you need to educate yourself on different styles of nationalism. And maybe pay more attention when I share my own views!

[NoNeed]

Edinburger said:

Then I suspect you need to educate yourself on different styles of nationalism. And maybe pay more attention when I share my own views!

For nationalism is nationalism, it doesn't matter what type of coat it is wearing, It will be ugly underneath.

[Rollin]

Edinburger said:

NoNeed said:

Edinburger said:

Are you some sort of forum-stalker?

No, I just don't like your brand of nationalism, which is just as dangerous and divisive as any other form of nationalism so thought your post warranted reply.

Then I suspect you need to educate yourself on different styles of nationalism. And maybe pay more attention when I share my own views!

So who's to say your (or the SNPs) version of nationalism is what other yes voters are voting for? Is civic nationalism hurling abuse at anyone who comes out in favour of a no vote whilst your FM makes jokes about it? Calling no voters traitors or anti Scottish? English people getting beaten up? The public face of your nationalism isn't very pretty.

[gofasterrosssco]

Alpacaman said:

If you want to do a completely biased survey to try and push you towards voting yes here you go-

http://www.independentscotland.org/content/what-to...

I love the fact if you say you want to stay in the EU it suggests you should vote yes, utterly barmy.

That is an excellently biased piece of trash... Especially when the result comes out as no, and it says "you're basically happy as you are then"..

The results:

[davepoth]

Edinburger said:

I'm talking about the crux of this debate. There will always be crackpots and eccentrics.

Very self deprecating of you, but what sort of Nationalism does the average yesser want?

[///ajd]

Edinburger said:

Then I suspect you need to educate yourself on different styles of nationalism. And maybe pay more attention when I share my own views!

The main issue with Nationalism that is clearly identifiable from the SNP - is having someone to blame and hate for the Nations woes. In the SNP case this is Westminster - don't say the English. The US doesn't have this in its mainstream parties - it is nonsense to claim a similarity. The SNP have more in common with the NASDP with their rhetoric than the main US parties. Come to terms with it. Calling it 'civic nationalism' does make that hate figure which is pivotal to party support go away however much you want it to.

[AstonZagato]

///ajd said:

Edinburger said:

Then I suspect you need to educate yourself on different styles of nationalism. And maybe pay more attention when I share my own views!

The main issue with Nationalism that is clearly identifiable from the SNP - is having someone to blame and hate for the Nations woes. In the SNP case this is Westminster - don't say the English. The US doesn't have this in its mainstream parties - it is nonsense to claim a similarity. The SNP have more in common with the NASDP with their rhetoric than the main US parties. Come to terms with it. Calling it 'civic nationalism' does make that hate figure which is pivotal to party support go away however much you want it to.

There is a very ugly side to all Nationalism. Those who want to ignore it and call it "civic" do so at their peril.

We know that this Nationalist campaign has lied consistently to the electorate (and have been regularly caught doing so). They demonise Westminster. They do not discourage those who abuse those who disagree with their views. They reinforce prejudice (there is an inherent self-superiority in all Nationalism - "we are better than you" - and Scottish Nationalism is no different: "fairer society", "Scots will be better at making decisions for Scots", "only way to save the NHS").

Burger, if you take off the tartan-tinted glasses, you'll find that you are supporting an ugly campaign run by some very, very ugly people and supported by some hideous bigots. The trouble with their "end-justifies-the-means" approach is that the entire well will be thoughoughly poisoned should they win. People will have been misled and poorer (at least in the short-term). It will do nothing for the social cohesion that you would obviously like. In fact it will rip your beloved country apart. Time to get off the fence on the right side and vote NO.

[ellroy]

AstonZagato said:

an ugly campaign run by some very, very ugly people

The deputy leader of the SNP for one.

[Welshbeef]

ellroy said:

AstonZagato said:

an ugly campaign run by some very, very ugly people

The deputy leader of the SNP for one.

Oh I don't know I bet she really tries hard ...

[ukbabz]

1. YesBecause is trending on twitter..

This one made me chuckle..

https://twitter.com/tartangladbach/status/50238704...

[Welshbeef]

ukbabz said:

#YesBecause is trending on twitter..

This one made me chuckle..

https://twitter.com/tartangladbach/status/50238704...

There are 650 MPs in Westminster of which Scotland have 59 which is directly inline with population size.


Where do they get the much larger incorrect number from?