Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[Gecko1978]

NoNeed said:

Scotland was the poor girl that married the prince.

An now she wants to go off an do her own thing with out the prince but keep the castel the crown jewels the servants and the soildiers but other wise she is on her own.

This topic has ground to a halt really untill Big Eck makes another announcement what we know so far is the Yesnp have promised to keep the Pound and the leaders of all other parties have said no. So one can deduce there will be no currency union. The SNP have said they will remian in the EU yet EU heads have said no so again we can deduce this will not happen.

So thats the two big ones the SNP are at odds with the mainstream view. Why anyone would be on the fence now who knows, either you care less about these things and will vote yes any way or you realise you have been delt a dud hand by a dud 1 dimensional party and you vote no.

Viper / PCV, Burger, et all just want to skirt round the issue and say it will be alright on the night well it won't and the honest reason is people act in there own interests and when it comes to negociations the best for Scotland won't matter its will be best for a given MP getting elected etc.

[steveatesh]

Interesting article here on the elephant in the room for nationalists, mainly that they are not getting independence at all due to Salmonds wish to be part of the EU.

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2014...

I know it's been mentioned on this forum before but I'm not sure if fluff, PVC or other nationalists here have adequately addressed the point that they will be worse off in the event of a yes vote due to the conditions they will have to accept to join the EU. Salmond of course is in denial, displaying that well known human trait of confirmation bias, which is probably their position too?

This particular elephant, coupled with the refusal to accept any of the other logical arguments about currency union, NATO, the submarines etc etc means, in my opinion, that independence is not the driver here but just good old fashioned racism wrapped up in a Blue and white flag.

[Edinburger]

NoNeed said:

Scotland was the poor girl that married the prince.

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

[Edinburger]

steveatesh said:

Interesting article here on the elephant in the room for nationalists, mainly that they are not getting independence at all due to Salmonds wish to be part of the EU.

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2014...

I know it's been mentioned on this forum before but I'm not sure if fluff, PVC or other nationalists here have adequately addressed the point that they will be worse off in the event of a yes vote due to the conditions they will have to accept to join the EU. Salmond of course is in denial, displaying that well known human trait of confirmation bias, which is probably their position too?

This particular elephant, coupled with the refusal to accept any of the other logical arguments about currency union, NATO, the submarines etc etc means, in my opinion, that independence is not the driver here but just good old fashioned racism wrapped up in a Blue and white flag.

Thanks for that Steve. It's been a few days since we were called "racist" so thanks for bringing up that one again.

Utterley, utterley ridicolous.

[paulrockliffe]

Edinburger said:

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

More bks. Why don't you at least attempt to answer a few of the substantive points rather than continuing to post this crap?

[toppstuff]

Edinburger said:

Thanks for that Steve. It's been a few days since we were called "racist" so thanks for bringing up that one again.

Utterley, utterley ridicolous.

Well given that you refuse to answer or acknowledge any of the fundamental issues , yet still take the same position, there has to be some logical explanation. There is no logic to the lack of a plan B on currency and EU. It is indefensible.

So it must be something else fuelling this illogical nonsense. If it acts like and dog and barks like a dog...

[Gecko1978]

Edinburger said:

NoNeed said:

Scotland was the poor girl that married the prince.

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Hate to break it to you but Oil revenuse at peak werew £13bn a year in same period revenue from the city was over £50bn. So not only is the Prince richer but his wealth comes from a business which is growing.

Without the funds from the UK (England) 2 scottish banks would have gone bust and with it scotlands finances would be in the toilet.

Now lets get back to the Questions.

1) what do you think will happen re currency

2) how will you join the EU

3) how will you fund defence and retian shipping jobs

4) how will you fund pensions

6) how will you cope with the loss of two major banks if you do join the EU

7) how will you fund education if you join the EU and can't charge english students

Your not richer than the rest of the UK, you have a smaller population less industry and less growth.

Still we are all happy for you to give it a go if you want just so long as you accept your leaving the castle with whats yours an nothing else.

[AstonZagato]

Gecko1978 said:

Still we are all happy for you to give it a go if you want just so long as you accept your leaving the castle with whats yours an nothing else.

And we aren't going to be liable for your credit card bill (especially given that the girl has hardly been prudent with her spending and the inheritance is now mainly gone).

[Neonblau]

pcvdriver said:

Okay PCV you had a stab at immigration which was a fail.

What about the other decisions that you wanted to be made in, by for Scotland?

Do you actually have any or will you just try and forget that you said it?

Edited by Neonblau on Thursday 17th April 09:18

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Utter, utter, certifiable nonsense.

You still bleat on about no positive reasons to vote no despite all we've educated you on, and the content of the better together campaign?

You must have your head so far up yours and Salmond's backsides you're wearing his lungs as a hat.

[Welshbeef]

When are the big debates on TH why is the rUK not seeing these debates between the Yes and No parties.
Etc

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Utter, utter, certifiable nonsense.

You still bleat on about no positive reasons to vote no despite all we've educated you on, and the content of the better together campaign?

You must have your head so far up yours and Salmond's backsides you're wearing his lungs as a hat.

Dontcha just love the banter?

I thought someone would follow this on with a trip to marriage guidance, the poor girl being given more control over her own life and financial affairs, and a fairer household with a marriage of equal partnership.

Hey ho. The sense of humour transplant was clearly done. Let's just revert to calling the Scots "racist", shall we?

[Gecko1978]

Welshbeef said:

When are the big debates on TH why is the rUK not seeing these debates between the Yes and No parties.
Etc

I think Scotland has its ovwn version of news night which I suspect you can watch on Iplayer I would also think when Yes and Better togeather go head to head that will be on TV for all to see.

But to behonest while I find this topic interesting having lived in Scotland, I think there are bigger issues in the world for the TV news to cover like ferrys sinking, Syria, Ukrain etc but closer to the time there will be more TV shows and documentries.

[Edinburger]

Gecko1978 said:

Edinburger said:

NoNeed said:

Scotland was the poor girl that married the prince.

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Hate to break it to you but Oil revenuse at peak werew £13bn a year in same period revenue from the city was over £50bn. So not only is the Prince richer but his wealth comes from a business which is growing.

Without the funds from the UK (England) 2 scottish banks would have gone bust and with it scotlands finances would be in the toilet.

Now lets get back to the Questions.

1) what do you think will happen re currency

2) how will you join the EU

3) how will you fund defence and retian shipping jobs

4) how will you fund pensions

6) how will you cope with the loss of two major banks if you do join the EU

7) how will you fund education if you join the EU and can't charge english students

Your not richer than the rest of the UK, you have a smaller population less industry and less growth.

Still we are all happy for you to give it a go if you want just so long as you accept your leaving the castle with whats yours an nothing else.

Och, chill Geck.

It's the day before the Easter break (although not for everyone, I do understand). Take it easy.

[Gecko1978]

Edinburger said:

Och, chill Geck.

It's the day before the Easter break (although not for everyone, I do understand). Take it easy.

To be clear I have no personel issue with you and think its quit brave you join the debate from another point of view. But seriosuly we can joke about kings and castles but having lived in scotland I know there is a lot of mystery about where the great nation fits in the union and this needs to be laid plane before the people before they go to the voting booths.

Any way as you were you face panining mental

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Oh look a nat is being a victim

again

[steveatesh]

Edinburger said:

Thanks for that Steve. It's been a few days since we were called "racist" so thanks for bringing up that one again.

Utterley, utterley ridicolous.

Well I must confess I'm struggling to see any other reason . You want to follow a path that will take you to freedom from Westminster, despite the fact you have representation there and have had a major say in uk governments in the past, but the reality is you will have less freedom because of the EU conditions you will have attached. The Scotland Act will mean, in the event of a no vote, you have even more devolution than now, so a vote for no isn't even for the status quo, it's for more self determination than any other country in the uk. Never mind the economic arguments, the fact remains that the EU does, and will still have a bigger say over the laws of your country, but you will be in an even worse position than now.

Your freedom argument is a non starter. The economics don't work. So if it's not racism, then what is it?

[McWigglebum4th]

steveatesh said:

Well I must confess I'm struggling to see any other reason . You want to follow a path that will take you to freedom from Westminster, despite the fact you have representation there and have had a major say in uk governments in the past, but the reality is you will have less freedom because of the EU conditions you will have attached. The Scotland Act will mean, in the event of a no vote, you have even more devolution than now, so a vote for no isn't even for the status quo, it's for more self determination than any other country in the uk. Never mind the economic arguments, the fact remains that the EU does, and will still have a bigger say over the laws of your country, but you will be in an even worse position than now.

Your freedom argument is a non starter. The economics don't work. So if it's not racism, then what is it?

There is another reason

Stupidity

Some nats belive that once we leave the union we will all get a cheque for a million pounds each year.

So we have the following reasons

Racism
Stupidity
Greed
OD on Braveheart

[toppstuff]

Edinburger said:

Gecko1978 said:

Edinburger said:

NoNeed said:

Scotland was the poor girl that married the prince.

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Hate to break it to you but Oil revenuse at peak werew £13bn a year in same period revenue from the city was over £50bn. So not only is the Prince richer but his wealth comes from a business which is growing.

Without the funds from the UK (England) 2 scottish banks would have gone bust and with it scotlands finances would be in the toilet.

Now lets get back to the Questions.

1) what do you think will happen re currency

2) how will you join the EU

3) how will you fund defence and retian shipping jobs

4) how will you fund pensions

6) how will you cope with the loss of two major banks if you do join the EU

7) how will you fund education if you join the EU and can't charge english students

Your not richer than the rest of the UK, you have a smaller population less industry and less growth.

Still we are all happy for you to give it a go if you want just so long as you accept your leaving the castle with whats yours an nothing else.

Och, chill Geck.

It's the day before the Easter break (although not for everyone, I do understand). Take it easy.

For the love of God, just answer the bloody questions. This is like debating with a gibbon.

[Wombat3]

toppstuff said:

Edinburger said:

Gecko1978 said:

Edinburger said:

NoNeed said:

Scotland was the poor girl that married the prince.

And they had many years of happy marriage.

Now they have grown older and they each have some different interests. They still love each other but they aren't in love.

The prince's business has gone bust and he has fallen on hard times. The poor girl had a lucky massive inheritence and sorted her life out, and she now puts the bread on the table. The prince is really worried that she has filed for divorce, as he may not survive financially and also the prince will be a far less significant dignitry without her as she will take a third of his land too.

But oddly, to save his marriage the prince hasn't told the poor (now rich) girl why he should stay with her. Instead he has told her how lonely and sad her single life will be and her inheritance won't last long and she'll soon a poor girl again.

Hate to break it to you but Oil revenuse at peak werew £13bn a year in same period revenue from the city was over £50bn. So not only is the Prince richer but his wealth comes from a business which is growing.

Without the funds from the UK (England) 2 scottish banks would have gone bust and with it scotlands finances would be in the toilet.

Now lets get back to the Questions.

1) what do you think will happen re currency

2) how will you join the EU

3) how will you fund defence and retian shipping jobs

4) how will you fund pensions

6) how will you cope with the loss of two major banks if you do join the EU

7) how will you fund education if you join the EU and can't charge english students

Your not richer than the rest of the UK, you have a smaller population less industry and less growth.

Still we are all happy for you to give it a go if you want just so long as you accept your leaving the castle with whats yours an nothing else.

Och, chill Geck.

It's the day before the Easter break (although not for everyone, I do understand). Take it easy.

For the love of God, just answer the bloody questions. This is like debating with a gibbon.

It would seem we have another classic case of :

"Never debate with an idiot, they'll wear you down & then beat you with experience"