Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
confused_buyer said:
Oh dear Scotland what was that. It appeared to be two 3rd rate politcians from a 3rd world country debating pointless subjects with a wild audience. If it had some silly accents it would have looked like a Fast Show sketch.
Pretty much all of it was pointless. Here today - gone tomorrow political issues like a Bedroom Tax or DLA rules are not relevant when discussing the next 50, 100 or 200 years. This was small time politics being discussed with silly points scoring over any reasoned relevant debate. Salmond, Darling, BBC Scotland and Scotland as a whole should be ashamed of it.
As for Salmond's vision of an independent Scotland it seems to be some sort of rogue state on the edges of Europe with a reckless default to its name using someone else's currency and pleasing benefit receivers by sticking their fingers up at the English for the 3 months before all the money runs out. Presumably, after that, the bankrupt Scotland will blame it on all England for retaining the Malvinas.
I don't know what the result will be - despite all the logical arguments against I've always thought Scotland might vote Yes - but if I lived in Scotland tonight and had even half a brain I would be absolutely s
tting myself.
Yes its easy to see how brown and darling got us into such a mess if that's the best they can do!!! Thank god salmond never joined the labour party they realy would have done for us ,it was like two builders having a argument in the pub after a hard day on site ..Pretty much all of it was pointless. Here today - gone tomorrow political issues like a Bedroom Tax or DLA rules are not relevant when discussing the next 50, 100 or 200 years. This was small time politics being discussed with silly points scoring over any reasoned relevant debate. Salmond, Darling, BBC Scotland and Scotland as a whole should be ashamed of it.
As for Salmond's vision of an independent Scotland it seems to be some sort of rogue state on the edges of Europe with a reckless default to its name using someone else's currency and pleasing benefit receivers by sticking their fingers up at the English for the 3 months before all the money runs out. Presumably, after that, the bankrupt Scotland will blame it on all England for retaining the Malvinas.
I don't know what the result will be - despite all the logical arguments against I've always thought Scotland might vote Yes - but if I lived in Scotland tonight and had even half a brain I would be absolutely s
tting myself.Edited by powerstroke on Tuesday 26th August 07:06
Welshbeef said:
No Burger to answer questions
No PVC driver
No Fluffy knickers
No XJS driver (same as PVC we all suspect)
No Black swan
No Vincter princey boy
Game over eh chaps.
First of all, it isn't a game - far from it.No PVC driver
No Fluffy knickers
No XJS driver (same as PVC we all suspect)
No Black swan
No Vincter princey boy
Game over eh chaps.
Secondly, regarding your post of the other day:
Welshbeef said:
Burger going to respond to he Sweeny comment you asked for and said you would reply to it has been provided 6 times now are you trying to do the same as last time ie 14 weeks of fibbing you had the truth and refused to provide any info only eventually to come clean as telling a big fat lie (did you get a ban for that if not why not 1 month)
So:a) I've not been on PH for a few days so let me read that Swinney article and get back to you (you do mean John Swinney, yes?).
b) I didn't "fib" for 14 weeks - as you know perfectly well, a discussion took place and I said I had supplementary information/evidence at home and said I'd share it when I was home, however, I then realised it was under NDA and was unable to share it, never mind on a public forum.
c) Therefore there was no lie.
d) And I wasn't banned.
Despite your distorted view of the world suggesting I'm this big fat liar and NoNuts hilariously calling me a troll every five minutes, the Mods clearly don't agree with you two as I've never been banned and am obviously behaving within the rules of the forums.
End of.
covmutley said:
The yes Scotland Facebook page makes for interesting reading. They seem to think darling saying they can peg against the £ is proof they will get a currency union, or is a currency union ( I can't work out what they think he said!).
I'm glad I don't have to vote on this. Maybe if I was a scot i would feel differently, but I think I would be so disappointed that the debate has been based on such lose ideas and tory hating.
I think it's fair to say a lot of Scots feel that way. Both sides of the campaign have let the people of Scotland down.I'm glad I don't have to vote on this. Maybe if I was a scot i would feel differently, but I think I would be so disappointed that the debate has been based on such lose ideas and tory hating.
Funk said:
Started watching it on iPlayer and had to give up. The moving-out-from-behind-the-lectern thing pissed me off too.
Darling got played tonight - the point about '..which Plan B would be best...'? Seriously? NONE of them, that's why he's the man voting NO. Jesus wept. Salmond pounced on a the 'revelation' that Darling said they could use the pound - well of course that's an option sugartits - it's just a terrible, appalling one.
Why? You would have no say in the management of the currency you use. No seat at the table where monetary policies are set - they will be set in the best interests of rUK and rUK alone. Scotland will go from having a say in things to having no say. There will be no currency union, it is NOT in the interests of rUK to underwrite Scottish borrowing without political and financial union. That's the whole POINT of 'union'. If you want that, then the answer is actually to vote no! As for threatening - again - to renege on the debt......Jesus wept. It's funny how Salmond stated you '...can't be responsible for debt that's not yours...' - Scotland has arguably a greater responsibility for the debt than England as more is spent per head in Scotland that England. If there's been debts run up then Scotland has more than played its part in creating them and MUST take responsibility for repaying them. To not do so would crucify Scottish borrowing for decades to come. Also what was all that guff about a 'mandate'? You can have all the mandates you want, you're not getting a currency union. Next question.
As for the oil, it may have escaped Salmond's notice that the world is fast trying to move to renewables and alternative forms of energy (never mind that much of that is, at present, misguided). It's possible there are billions of barrels more to be extracted but a) by whom when the investment shrivels and Scotland can't afford to get to it and b) what happens as world demand changes and oil becomes an even dirtier word? What if other oil-producing nations turn on the taps more and the price falls (which we've actually seen happen just recently)?
This is a joke. If Scotland votes for independence based on this then fking good luck - you're on your own, don't come looking for a bail-out when the ship sinks.
Ha ha I noticed they'd both had a lot of coaching. I thought the moving-out-from-behind-the-lectern thing was really good as it showed Salmond more personable and his engaging with the audience was much better last night as was his eye contact which was split well between the audience and the camera. Darling tried to be more assertive and I was interested in the whole-point-angrily-at-Salmomnd-while-looking-at-the-audience thing, which I thought failed.Darling got played tonight - the point about '..which Plan B would be best...'? Seriously? NONE of them, that's why he's the man voting NO. Jesus wept. Salmond pounced on a the 'revelation' that Darling said they could use the pound - well of course that's an option sugartits - it's just a terrible, appalling one.
Why? You would have no say in the management of the currency you use. No seat at the table where monetary policies are set - they will be set in the best interests of rUK and rUK alone. Scotland will go from having a say in things to having no say. There will be no currency union, it is NOT in the interests of rUK to underwrite Scottish borrowing without political and financial union. That's the whole POINT of 'union'. If you want that, then the answer is actually to vote no! As for threatening - again - to renege on the debt......Jesus wept. It's funny how Salmond stated you '...can't be responsible for debt that's not yours...' - Scotland has arguably a greater responsibility for the debt than England as more is spent per head in Scotland that England. If there's been debts run up then Scotland has more than played its part in creating them and MUST take responsibility for repaying them. To not do so would crucify Scottish borrowing for decades to come. Also what was all that guff about a 'mandate'? You can have all the mandates you want, you're not getting a currency union. Next question.
As for the oil, it may have escaped Salmond's notice that the world is fast trying to move to renewables and alternative forms of energy (never mind that much of that is, at present, misguided). It's possible there are billions of barrels more to be extracted but a) by whom when the investment shrivels and Scotland can't afford to get to it and b) what happens as world demand changes and oil becomes an even dirtier word? What if other oil-producing nations turn on the taps more and the price falls (which we've actually seen happen just recently)?
This is a joke. If Scotland votes for independence based on this then f
king good luck - you're on your own, don't come looking for a bail-out when the ship sinks.Edited by Funk on Tuesday 26th August 00:03
Debate-wise, I didn't think either of them convered themselves in glory. Salmond clearly emerged victorious but what did us undecideds learn from last night? Not a lot I suspect. Was quite dissapointing all round. But hey-ho, we are where we are.
Edinburger said:
Ha ha I noticed they'd both had a lot of coaching. I thought the moving-out-from-behind-the-lectern thing was really good as it showed Salmond more personable and his engaging with the audience was much better last night as was his eye contact which was split well between the audience and the camera. Darling tried to be more assertive and I was interested in the whole-point-angrily-at-Salmomnd-while-looking-at-the-audience thing, which I thought failed.
Debate-wise, I didn't think either of them convered themselves in glory. Salmond clearly emerged victorious but what did us undecideds learn from last night? Not a lot I suspect. Was quite dissapointing all round. But hey-ho, we are where we are.
But you will still vote YESDebate-wise, I didn't think either of them convered themselves in glory. Salmond clearly emerged victorious but what did us undecideds learn from last night? Not a lot I suspect. Was quite dissapointing all round. But hey-ho, we are where we are.
bennyboydurham said:
Jimboka said:
Fittster said:
Considering this is a major national interest how come Cameron and Clegg aren't stepping up to the plate?
It is most surprising. Cameron has most to gain from a yes vote, if he was self serving he'd be up there, I dare say wearing his Eton uniform & top hat to make Salmond explode ! Then Tories would walk the next election due to all those labour seats disappearing & we'd get the entertainment of Salmonds meltdown. win win
If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
covmutley said:
Welshbeef said:
So latest info is Scotland is spending £10billion more a year (defecit) than it generates.
What are Scotland going to cut to close the gap as from the debate they are very against any austerity and want to spend more? Given we are a United Kingdom if they want to spend more do they want the Welsh to subside them or the N Irish or the English? Just who do they want to suffer more pain ?
Haven't you heard? They have lots of lovely oil. Deficit? They are going to save up an oil fund?!!What are Scotland going to cut to close the gap as from the debate they are very against any austerity and want to spend more? Given we are a United Kingdom if they want to spend more do they want the Welsh to subside them or the N Irish or the English? Just who do they want to suffer more pain ?
The point is that Scotland / the UK is the only country in the world to discover oil and become poorer.
We all know, as Salmond alluded to, that games are being played on both sides but especially by BT to play down the significance of and future revenues from oil.
///ajd said:
A lot of Nats are frothing about Alex asking if Darling would support a currency union after Yes - seemingly to think it is a clever or revealing question as Darling stumbled to answer. Of course he stumbles to answer the question "which of these st options is your favourite?". Err, but they are all st, so none, vote No for crying out loud!
Then Alex jumped on "we can use the pound" - ah, ah, ah! Darling says we can use the pound, knowing full well he only meant in the panama/financial suicide way.
It is pathetic.
At one point I found myself wanting a Yes vote.
Yip, that was a cringe-worthy moment.t options is your favourite?". Err, but they are all st, so none, vote No for crying out loud!Then Alex jumped on "we can use the pound" - ah, ah, ah! Darling says we can use the pound, knowing full well he only meant in the panama/financial suicide way.
It is pathetic.
At one point I found myself wanting a Yes vote.
Edinburger said:
I think the lack of participation from the Prime Minister is extremely dissapointing. I've heard all the reasons for this approach but I think they're all wrong.
If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
I'd imagine people would be fixated on Camerons 'etonian background' rather than anything he has to say, so a waste of time really.If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
Edinburger said:
I think the lack of participation from the Prime Minister is extremely dissapointing. I've heard all the reasons for this approach but I think they're all wrong.
If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
Cameron did his bit - by requesting and authorising a referendum to take place.If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
And he would be a soft target for.. "You have never lived in Scotland.... blah blah blah"
It is best handled by those who live in Scotland.
I saw your reply to Welshy - Please do take time to read John Swinney's report. I am genuinely interested to what you make of it.
Edinburger said:
You're being facetious, yeah?
The point is that Scotland / the UK is the only country in the world to discover oil and become poorer..
You believe that drivel?The point is that Scotland / the UK is the only country in the world to discover oil and become poorer..
The UK and Scotland are world leaders in subsea technology and that is without taking the stuff out of the ground
andymadmak said:
Salmond will be winning votes with his performance amongst those who's understanding of economics, finance, and how goverment works is veneer thin. He is all about the slogans and the soundbites. Darling is being asked the "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Questions.
The omly good bit is that Salmond has said he will accept a no vote......
I found that pleasing actually, and also the fact he said he'd invite Darling to join the cross-party negotiating team.The omly good bit is that Salmond has said he will accept a no vote......
The fact is that from 19th Sep we have either a new nation to form or an existing country to improve and everyone needs to move on from the pre 18th Sep world.
whoami said:
GG89 said:
Most of the Yessers I know don't have a pot to piss in and there's no thought process involved, it's a case of things can't get any worse for them.
That's a good point.They seem to be split between the underclass and some "academics" with a romanticised view of what would happen post a "yes" vote.
A toxic combination.
Jawaman said:
It will be interesting to see what a yes vote would ignite over here (Northern Ireland)
I've bene thinking about that too - it could open a whole new can of worms.Jawaman said:
Other than that, what happens to the flag?
Despite what someone else said in response, I'd be amazed if it wasn't changed post-independence!Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
I think the lack of participation from the Prime Minister is extremely dissapointing. I've heard all the reasons for this approach but I think they're all wrong.
If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
Cameron did his bit - by requesting and authorising a referendum to take place.If California were voting for independence do you think President Obama would be silent?
And he would be a soft target for.. "You have never lived in Scotland.... blah blah blah"
It is best handled by those who live in Scotland.
I saw your reply to Welshy - Please do take time to read John Swinney's report. I am genuinely interested to what you make of it.
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