Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
McWigglebum4th said:
£1000 at a bookies of your choice that you will lose the referendum
You man enough?
I honestly feel sorry for the sane members of Scotland, even if a No is voted for, the relationship is damaged and I can't see it being fixed quickly.You man enough?
Just so some face painted pricks feel like the big man.
Moonhawk said:
Welshbeef said:
And it totally ignores the legacy 1707-1981 why?
Yep - I asked that question on page 131 of this thread (as well as several times over the past few months) - funnily enough it seems to have been ignored. Odd - nationalists are usually so reliable and prompt in answering questions like this.......
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 30th August 12:34
Amazing how he was happy to work for the foreign office for 20 years before leaving and deciding that they were so corrupt and evil.....oh no....hang on....he was sacked. Could he possibly have an axe to grind?
From his Wiki page:
"On 21 August 2003 he was confronted with 18 charges. These included "hiring dolly birds [pretty young women] for above the usual rate" for the visa department, though he claims that the department had an all-male staff, and granting UK visas in exchange for sex. The FCO gave him a week to resign and told him that discussing the charges would be a violation of the Official Secrets Act 1989.[10]"
From his Wiki page:
"On 21 August 2003 he was confronted with 18 charges. These included "hiring dolly birds [pretty young women] for above the usual rate" for the visa department, though he claims that the department had an all-male staff, and granting UK visas in exchange for sex. The FCO gave him a week to resign and told him that discussing the charges would be a violation of the Official Secrets Act 1989.[10]"
Oakey said:
This torture and invasion of Iraq he speaks of, remind me who was PM at the time?
I believe it was a certain Mr B liar - yet another part of the Westminster machine. It doesn't matter what his country of birth is, likewise - neither is mine relevant to how Scotland should be governed. I thought this post would have the usual suspects spluttering into their lunchtime cuppa. As you were gents!!!
nellyleelephant said:
I honestly feel sorry for the sane members of Scotland, even if a No is voted for, the relationship is damaged and I can't see it being fixed quickly.
Just so some face painted pricks feel like the big man.
If the No vote wins I am seriously considering starting a campaign so us English can have our own referendum on keeping them.Just so some face painted pricks feel like the big man.
McWigglebum4th said:
£1000 at a bookies of your choice that you will lose the referendum
You man enough?
More man than you'll ever be Wiggles £1000 may be a bit tight at the moment now, as I've decided to return to become a full-time student again, so funds are understandably a bit tight...... I may put down a £100 wager to show the spirit of things though!!!You man enough?
pcvdriver said:
McWigglebum4th said:
£1000 at a bookies of your choice that you will lose the referendum
You man enough?
More man than you'll ever be Wiggles £1000 may be a bit tight at the moment now, as I've decided to return to become a full-time student again, so funds are understandably a bit tight...... I may put down a £100 wager to show the spirit of things though!!!You man enough?
Pcvdriver - ANOTHER Scotland independence thread? Really? Can't you just keep the comments to the one thread everyone else is following or are you banned from it and this is your way of circumventing it? The news and politics thread will soon just be full of Scottish independence posts, all started by you.
Chlamydia said:
Pcvdriver - ANOTHER Scotland independence thread? Really? Can't you just keep the comments to the one thread everyone else is following or are you banned from it and this is your way of circumventing it? The news and politics thread will soon just be full of Scottish independence posts, all started by you.
Especially when that video had already been posted in that thread...pcvdriver said:
More man than you'll ever be Wiggles £1000 may be a bit tight at the moment now, as I've decided to return to become a full-time student again, so funds are understandably a bit tight...... I may put down a £100 wager to show the spirit of things though!!!
But if you're so sure of a yes you'll get back 4 times the amount...so surely you should be putting every last penny you can get hold of on it? Chlamydia said:
Pcvdriver - ANOTHER Scotland independence thread? Really? Can't you just keep the comments to the one thread everyone else is following or are you banned from it and this is your way of circumventing it? The news and politics thread will soon just be full of Scottish independence posts, all started by you.
Actually I'd intended it to be a thread on Westminster's hypocrisy in it's matters of foreign affairs, totally independent of matters closer to home......(pun intended ;-) btw). I can't help it if the usual list of vein poppers take it another way....As you were mate!!!Mojocvh said:
So they will stoop to compare Scotland to Uzbekistan to gain credence ?
What did that diplomat do to get sent there, that's what needs addressing first.
Are you suggesting that Westminster only sends it's representatives around the globe based on what level of indiscretion they have committed in their careers?What did that diplomat do to get sent there, that's what needs addressing first.
pcvdriver said:
McWigglebum4th said:
£1000 at a bookies of your choice that you will lose the referendum
You man enough?
More man than you'll ever be Wiggles £1000 may be a bit tight at the moment now, as I've decided to return to become a full-time student again, so funds are understandably a bit tight...... I may put down a £100 wager to show the spirit of things though!!!You man enough?
Come on put it on your credit card you are bound to get 4 times the amount back
Take a wonga loan
Or do you have doudts?
I have already gambled my house on you lot losing
I don't think that the analogy is quite right.
In the days of industrial expansion and the Empire Scotland was by and large a proud member of Great Britain. The bursting of that bubble in the First World War, the gradual dismemberment and disappearance of Empire, and de-industrialisation resulted in a failure of leadership. Britishness has been an evaporating concept for a long time and no-one has come up with a vision which might stop that process. The whole of the UK has been let down by successive generations of politicians who have tried, in the 'socialist' era to bribe their way to power, with ill considered bribes that evaporated and left nothing. In Scotland both Labour and Conservatives created a subsidy junkie economy, with the immediate intention of keeping hold of the benefits of Scottish membership of the UK, oil, whisky, somewhere to keep the subs, and most importantly legitimacy as a world power. This has inevitably fostered an inferiority complex in which subsidies are repaid with bitter resentment. And they are indeed patronised by politicians at Westminster, though probably no more so than the North East or many other peripheral areas. But the Scots feel it.
The SNP are no Nazis. They simply do not have the cohesion, the fanaticism or anything like the nationalistic spirit of pre-war Germany. There is a tendency to blame the English in the way the Nazis blamed the Jews, but this is not so vicious as to be likely to call for extermination. So I do not expect concentration camps. If the Yes vote is carried, I (as a No-Voter) expect them to try to step up the bribes simply to stay in power, fail, and fragment into a large number of smaller groups, some of them of an virulent left wing nature. Scotland does not have the innate political stability which England has and which has been, imho, its greatest contribution to Scotland since 1707. Without that, things could get very sticky.
A proportion of Scots still regard themselves primarily as British. The question is, how large is that proportion, compared to the proportion of what someone above described as 'disgruntled underclass foot soldiers' with no real stake in the status quo, of whom, let me assure you, there are a hell of a lot, and those who for one reason or another have a stake or a burning belief in an independent Scotland. That is the only question to be answered.
The reasons why we are here could be debated for ever and it won't make any difference. The pro's and cons of independence are nebulous opinion. Independence would in the short term increase inward investment as global players seek to establish a foothold. Edinburgh is not however a financial centre on the scale of London and never will be, while the image of the 'canny Scot' has been destroyed by Fred Goodwin. Who is going to invest in a Scottish based pension fund, never mind a UK based one? There is a lot more talk in Scotland of social entitlement than commitment to hard work and free enterprise. That's what worries me. A sensible level of taxation and effective collective investment in the environment and infrastructure should, logically, work in everyone's favour. In reality collective investment is always corrupt and inefficient. No amount of debate is however going to convince a Yes-Voter. No one can really prove anything. So the decision is going to be made on subjective preference, and I am very apprehensive about how that will go.
In the days of industrial expansion and the Empire Scotland was by and large a proud member of Great Britain. The bursting of that bubble in the First World War, the gradual dismemberment and disappearance of Empire, and de-industrialisation resulted in a failure of leadership. Britishness has been an evaporating concept for a long time and no-one has come up with a vision which might stop that process. The whole of the UK has been let down by successive generations of politicians who have tried, in the 'socialist' era to bribe their way to power, with ill considered bribes that evaporated and left nothing. In Scotland both Labour and Conservatives created a subsidy junkie economy, with the immediate intention of keeping hold of the benefits of Scottish membership of the UK, oil, whisky, somewhere to keep the subs, and most importantly legitimacy as a world power. This has inevitably fostered an inferiority complex in which subsidies are repaid with bitter resentment. And they are indeed patronised by politicians at Westminster, though probably no more so than the North East or many other peripheral areas. But the Scots feel it.
The SNP are no Nazis. They simply do not have the cohesion, the fanaticism or anything like the nationalistic spirit of pre-war Germany. There is a tendency to blame the English in the way the Nazis blamed the Jews, but this is not so vicious as to be likely to call for extermination. So I do not expect concentration camps. If the Yes vote is carried, I (as a No-Voter) expect them to try to step up the bribes simply to stay in power, fail, and fragment into a large number of smaller groups, some of them of an virulent left wing nature. Scotland does not have the innate political stability which England has and which has been, imho, its greatest contribution to Scotland since 1707. Without that, things could get very sticky.
A proportion of Scots still regard themselves primarily as British. The question is, how large is that proportion, compared to the proportion of what someone above described as 'disgruntled underclass foot soldiers' with no real stake in the status quo, of whom, let me assure you, there are a hell of a lot, and those who for one reason or another have a stake or a burning belief in an independent Scotland. That is the only question to be answered.
The reasons why we are here could be debated for ever and it won't make any difference. The pro's and cons of independence are nebulous opinion. Independence would in the short term increase inward investment as global players seek to establish a foothold. Edinburgh is not however a financial centre on the scale of London and never will be, while the image of the 'canny Scot' has been destroyed by Fred Goodwin. Who is going to invest in a Scottish based pension fund, never mind a UK based one? There is a lot more talk in Scotland of social entitlement than commitment to hard work and free enterprise. That's what worries me. A sensible level of taxation and effective collective investment in the environment and infrastructure should, logically, work in everyone's favour. In reality collective investment is always corrupt and inefficient. No amount of debate is however going to convince a Yes-Voter. No one can really prove anything. So the decision is going to be made on subjective preference, and I am very apprehensive about how that will go.
Edited by cardigankid on Saturday 30th August 14:59
I had the galloping s
ts once at the Tashkent embassy; he showed me where the loos were. You're right; I listened.McWigglebum4th said:
pcvdriver said:
McWigglebum4th said:
£1000 at a bookies of your choice that you will lose the referendum
You man enough?
More man than you'll ever be Wiggles £1000 may be a bit tight at the moment now, as I've decided to return to become a full-time student again, so funds are understandably a bit tight...... I may put down a £100 wager to show the spirit of things though!!!You man enough?
Come on put it on your credit card you are bound to get 4 times the amount back
Take a wonga loan
Or do you have doudts?
I have already gambled my house on you lot losing
pcvdriver said:
No, I just have a notion of fiscal responsibility, no cowardice on my part - I just believe in living within my means, so definitely no Wonga, or other loan shark loans for me.... Sorry to hear you've bet your house on a no vote.
Fiscal responsibility and living within your means. Something the SNP doesn't have and wont achieve in an Independent Scotland. I think your confused, perhaps you should vote No?pcvdriver said:
No, I just have a notion of fiscal responsibility, no cowardice on my part - I just believe in living within my means, so definitely no Wonga, or other loan shark loans for me....
Sounds very thatcherite doesn't itliving within your means
pcvdriver said:
Sorry to hear you've bet your house on a no vote.
I haven'tYou have
YES wins 90% off the value of the house overnight
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