Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

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McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
pcvdriver said:
Let them cry racist all they want. It's not as if members of the BNP or that ilk are flocking to join the ranks of the SNP is it now?
In fact I'd wager that many BNP members are actually fans of the unionist position and supporters of Better Together. So like I said - let them cry racist all they want, it just makes them look even sillier.
So if i found someone saying

" As a Scot living in " Engayland " after the YES vote in September I will be moving back north and leaving " Engayland " to the " Muslims " who are already taking over ..................."

You would accept that their is racists being attracted to scotland

pcvdriver

1,819 posts

198 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
McWigglebum4th said:
So if i found someone saying

" As a Scot living in " Engayland " after the YES vote in September I will be moving back north and leaving " Engayland " to the " Muslims " who are already taking over ..................."

You would accept that their is racists being attracted to scotland
So if you'd read and had taken on-board the first part of the statement "As a Scot living in.... " There was a small clue that the person wouldn't need attracting to Scotland - being that they are already Scottish...

If, on the other-hand you're merely try to childishly insinuate that it is my position that racism is an unknown phenomenon, again, I have to be the bearer of bad news. No I don't think racism is absent from Scotland, but it is at a much lower level than it prevalence South of the border.

Siscar

6,315 posts

128 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
pcvdriver said:
So if you'd read and had taken on-board the first part of the statement "As a Scot living in.... " There was a small clue that the person wouldn't need attracting to Scotland - being that they are already Scottish...
If they were so attracted to Scotland why did they leave? It's one of the most notable qualities of Scots, the volume of them who leave.

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
pcvdriver said:
So if you'd read and had taken on-board the first part of the statement "As a Scot living in.... " There was a small clue that the person wouldn't need attracting to Scotland - being that they are already Scottish...

If, on the other-hand you're merely try to childishly insinuate that it is my position that racism is an unknown phenomenon, again, I have to be the bearer of bad news. No I don't think racism is absent from Scotland, but it is at a much lower level than it prevalence South of the border.
Is it?



Source

http://www.irr.org.uk/research/statistics/racial-v...


Edited by McWigglebum4th on Saturday 19th April 14:56

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
England has 83.9% of the population
Scotland has 8.4% of the population

(according to Wikipedia)

So it would seem that you are more likely to be victim to a racially motivated murder in Scotland rather than England.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
davepoth said:
England has 83.9% of the population
Scotland has 8.4% of the population

(according to Wikipedia)

So it would seem that you are more likely to be victim to a racially motivated murder in Scotland rather than England.
I think you should also have note of how an offence is classed as racist.

There does not have to be any element of racism in the mind of an offender for the offence to be classed as racist. Even when there is nothing in the prosecution case at court to prove, nor indeed suggest, racism as a motive, the offence is still recorded as racist in certain circumstances.


Rollin

6,077 posts

244 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
pcvdriver said:
McWigglebum4th said:
So if i found someone saying

" As a Scot living in " Engayland " after the YES vote in September I will be moving back north and leaving " Engayland " to the " Muslims " who are already taking over ..................."

You would accept that their is racists being attracted to scotland
So if you'd read and had taken on-board the first part of the statement "As a Scot living in.... " There was a small clue that the person wouldn't need attracting to Scotland - being that they are already Scottish...

If, on the other-hand you're merely try to childishly insinuate that it is my position that racism is an unknown phenomenon, again, I have to be the bearer of bad news. No I don't think racism is absent from Scotland, but it is at a much lower level than it prevalence South of the border.
Racist incidents are actually higher in Scotland. Ethnic minorities are a lower percentage of the population in Scotland than in England and Wales.

That's by the by though. What does bother me is the almost instant moral superiority of nationalists when things like this are discussed. They seem to assume they must be better, without actually doing any research.

Edited by Rollin on Saturday 19th April 15:32

Siscar

6,315 posts

128 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Rollin said:
That's by the by though. What does bother me is the almost instant moral superiority of nationalists when things like this are discussed. They seem to assume they must be better, without actually doing any research.
But of they did any research they'd not be nationalists. How could you be? Research into the consequences of having their own currency or borrowing someone else's and they'd be unionists. Work out what it could mean to some of their industries or any of the other economic consequences and they'd be unionists.

It's only failure or inability to research that makes the whole thing seem to anyone to be a good option.

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Rollin said:
Racist incidents are actually higher in Scotland. Ethnic minorities are a lower percentage of the population in Scotland than in England and Wales.

That's by the by though. What does bother me is the almost instant moral superiority of nationalists when things like this are discussed. They seem to assume they must be better, without actually doing any research.
Isn't believing your race is inherently morally superior to another race sound a wee bit

Racist

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
davepoth said:
England has 83.9% of the population
Scotland has 8.4% of the population

(according to Wikipedia)

So it would seem that you are more likely to be victim to a racially motivated murder in Scotland rather than England.
I think you should also have note of how an offence is classed as racist.

There does not have to be any element of racism in the mind of an offender for the offence to be classed as racist. Even when there is nothing in the prosecution case at court to prove, nor indeed suggest, racism as a motive, the offence is still recorded as racist in certain circumstances.
But since the method of recording is (I think) the same on both sides of the border, I think it's a reasonable assumption to assume that those cases occur at roughly the same level on both sides of the border.

///ajd

8,964 posts

205 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
McWigglebum4th said:
Rollin said:
Racist incidents are actually higher in Scotland. Ethnic minorities are a lower percentage of the population in Scotland than in England and Wales.

That's by the by though. What does bother me is the almost instant moral superiority of nationalists when things like this are discussed. They seem to assume they must be better, without actually doing any research.
Isn't believing your race is inherently morally superior to another race sound a wee bit

Racist
Well quite. The fact that pcv and burger think their 'race' of scots is fairer, purer and more morally upstanding than other lesser 'races', like those evil tory englanders, does kind of prove the point that they are supporting a selfish and racist movement. Those facebook links are rather depressing - such small minded ignorance of the nationalist moron. Sad in the case of the BNP who thankfully have almost no traction in the UK, disturbing when you think a similar mindset has a majority government in Scotland.


Borghetto

3,274 posts

182 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Siscar said:
But of they did any research they'd not be nationalists. How could you be? Research into the consequences of having their own currency or borrowing someone else's and they'd be unionists. Work out what it could mean to some of their industries or any of the other economic consequences and they'd be unionists.

It's only failure or inability to research that makes the whole thing seem to anyone to be a good option.
Certainly from the SNP blogs and postings I've read their Raison d'être seems to be how can we stiff the English, while all the time whinging at how they've been exploited/robbed and generally done down by their neighbours. When UK politicians or celebs ask them to remain with the union, they see this as proof that the dirty unionists only want to keep them in to further steal their assets. It doesn't seem to occur to them that if they leave. the rUK population may decide that the Scotland brand is toxic and act accordingly. I don't think they have seriously analysed what a st storm they'll be sailing into if or when the rUK start to behave toward them as they have acted toward their former countrymen.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
davepoth said:
But since the method of recording is (I think) the same on both sides of the border, I think it's a reasonable assumption to assume that those cases occur at roughly the same level on both sides of the border.
It may or may not be reasonable, but what it shows is that the figures for racist offences has no bearing on the number of racist offences.

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
///ajd said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Rollin said:
Racist incidents are actually higher in Scotland. Ethnic minorities are a lower percentage of the population in Scotland than in England and Wales.

That's by the by though. What does bother me is the almost instant moral superiority of nationalists when things like this are discussed. They seem to assume they must be better, without actually doing any research.
Isn't believing your race is inherently morally superior to another race sound a wee bit

Racist
Well quite. The fact that pcv and burger think their 'race' of scots is fairer, purer and more morally upstanding than other lesser 'races', like those evil tory englanders, does kind of prove the point that they are supporting a selfish and racist movement. Those facebook links are rather depressing - such small minded ignorance of the nationalist moron. Sad in the case of the BNP who thankfully have almost no traction in the UK, disturbing when you think a similar mindset has a majority government in Scotland.
And our MPs are so much better then your english ones

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-ea...

Neonblau

875 posts

132 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
Borghetto said:
Certainly from the SNP blogs and postings I've read their Raison d'être seems to be how can we stiff the English, while all the time whinging at how they've been exploited/robbed and generally done down by their neighbours. When UK politicians or celebs ask them to remain with the union, they see this as proof that the dirty unionists only want to keep them in to further steal their assets. It doesn't seem to occur to them that if they leave. the rUK population may decide that the Scotland brand is toxic and act accordingly. I don't think they have seriously analysed what a st storm they'll be sailing into if or when the rUK start to behave toward them as they have acted toward their former countrymen.
This is it in a nutshell. The myopic fantasy vision of the Nationalists seems to be that Scotland is somehow "special". It'll be a small country on the periphery of Europe, largely reliant on our land border for trading routes and with, in global terms, a small reserve of oil.

Even the Romans couldn't be arsed with the place and just put up a wall.


Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 19th April 2014
quotequote all
davepoth said:
But since the method of recording is (I think) the same on both sides of the border, I think it's a reasonable assumption to assume that those cases occur at roughly the same level on both sides of the border.
I haven't explained myself properly.

All the stats do is record certain offences which cannot be justified as racist incidents. We could call them genocides, or teddy bear picnics. What I'm suggesting is that the term is corrupted. It means nothing.

I know one, rather famous, incident which is recorded as a racist incident and there is no evidence of this. It has various famous black community leaders supporting it. The justification (there is no requirement for any justification) was at the time, it may well have developed, that the only reason a person was punched hard was because he was black. So we have no idea whether racism was a factor. Yet it is a racist incident.

You should also be aware that the Scottish legal system, and that includes policing, differs from that of England/Wales and it is an assumption that is probably extremely unlikely that the same recording methods are used to justify racist crimes.

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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jimmyjimjim

7,329 posts

237 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
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From 2012?

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
Interesting



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26925926

Also given the SNP have said they want to renationalise the Royal Mail how will they actually do that? The price has risen significantly and they have huge debts. Also given all the management structure is physically in the rUK how would it work? They would have to create all those positions AND the pension fund for those who are based in Scotland would have to be taken on by the Scottish Govt

Link fixed

Edited by Welshbeef on Sunday 20th April 08:08

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 20th April 2014
quotequote all
Question will Scotland set up a pension protection scheme like the UK has and will that be in operation from day 1?

If all the companies re age on their final salary and offer money purchase to avoid fully finding the £80billion deficit how much will Scottish pensioners or future pensioners lose out? Clearly rUKs oil within those funds would remain in the final salary set up.
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