Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[Wombat3]

Gecko1978 said:

fluffnik said:

The reconvened Scottish Parliament merely has to repeal the Act of Union and the UK ceases.

This could be problematic for England( incorporating Wales) with Northern Ireland¹, as it currently has no parliament...

¹NI's status is a complete mystery, the Kingdom of Ireland ceased to exist in 1949/1962 and it's not in either the Kingdom of England( incorporating Wales) nor the Kingdom of Scotland.

Gosh not this clap trap again. You know Scotland as a nation has the power to do the sum total of fk all.

1) population 5m ergo no one gives a st about you
2) financial sector owned by the UK government ergo no one gives a st about you
3) major exports on the whole owned by foreign companies ergo no one gives a st
4) ship building offered at a preferential rate as part of the UK so leave and ergo no one gives a st
4) GDP circa 9% of the UK or rather a small amount compared to say London ergo no one gives a st.
5) film media TV music nothing amazing ergo no one gives a st.
6) fishing grounds unprotected by amateurish suggested navy ergo no one gives a st if you threaten a blockade.

So tell me what can Scotland do to the rest of the union...

With any luck (I now hope) they'll just leave!

[Wombat3]

Edinburger said:

This is interesting - article below details estimated start-up costs for an independent Scotland could reach £2.5bn.....

Indeed it is one of the first interesting and relevant things you have posted.

These are also figures which have been discussed hereabouts(and dismissed or ignored by the Nat fools) for quite some time.

Do they not concern you, or do you not believe them?

(also bear in mind that any cost estimate for anything in the public sector is invariably "light")

[Axionknight]

Welshbeef said:

Sky news just reporting the latest poll results - 53% No 47% yes a 7% increase for the Yes campaign and now only a 3% swing.


Holy st this really could happen!
Maybe this short lead will encourage all the Nos to come out and vote or some Nos to think actually let's do it.

I'll piss my pants if it does - then put my house on the market and leave as soon as reasonably able - our skills are in demand and we are both young (26 and 24) so we wouldn't struggle to find work abroad, its our long term aim anyway.

Our only problem would be potential loss of equity if house prices take a nose dive as we put everything we had into the deposit and renovation of our home and whilst I know property is never a 100% safe bet we'd be fked if we ended up walking away with peanuts or worse, ended up in negative equity as the house owes us circa 100k including the deposit, stamp duty, arrangement fee for the mortgage ETC, it'd have to fall a long way to diddle us, I guess it could happen though!

Then it'd be a bottle of whisky and the local fishing lake for old Ax, if my life insurance covers suicide my missus would be sorted at least, sob

[AstonZagato]

I once likened the debate (and my role in it) as being like being around while a mate being told by a car salesman that he can buy a new Lada that will do more miles to the gallon than a Prius, be more comfortable than a Rolls Royce, outperform a Ferrari and get him laid. The salesman is clearly lying. All I need to do is point this out to my mate, show him the flaws in the arguments. Surely he will listen to common sense?

However, the mate is starting to agree with the car salesman. He ignores facts that are staring him the face. He wants to believe what is patently complete pish.

I can't be bothered anymore to stop him making the mistake of his life. In fact, I'm starting to think it will be amusing to watch and I can take the piss for ever as he regrets his decision and whines about it for years.

[Twilkes]

Welshbeef said:

Maybe this short lead will encourage all the Nos to come out and vote or some Nos to think actually let's do it.

That's close to where I am. Been reading this thread for the last few days, and had a Google alert for scottish independence for the last few months - learned to ignore anything from the BBC, Telegraph or Scottish Herald, but articles like this one resonate a lot:

http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002036.html#more

Very close to putting a cross in the 'No' box on the postal ballot, but one rush of blood and it could be a yes - if all these fellow countrypeople care so much about it, who am I to stand in their way?

Incidentally, there's been hardly any independence conversation in and around my friends and work colleagues over the last few months, but I think that may be because everyone has had one such conversation at some point in the past, concluded it was all a risky business and never really brought it up again - they're all fairly practical minded. I'm assuming a lot of them will be voting no but only really basing that on the fact that if they were voting yes they couldn't help but tell everyone about it. Like when the iPhone came out.

[simoid]

Can still get 7/2 on a yes vote for anyone who thinks it's a real possibility.

I will concede to Edinburger that he was correct, the polls have significantly closed and I didn't expect the yes vote to be above 40%. It's fairly likely this could be the case now.

[Cobnapint]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but if it's a Yes, how will they stop a run on Scottish Banks and Building Societies.

Surely, once Scotland goes it alone the UK's FSCS won't apply there will it? Won't they have to make their own arrangements?

[Wombat3]

Cobnapint said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but if it's a Yes, how will they stop a run on Scottish Banks and Building Societies.

Surely, once Scotland goes it alone the UK's FSCS won't apply there will it? Won't they have to make their own arrangements?

This is a good question. If necessary I imagine they will just freeze accounts. How long they can do that for is anyone's guess though/

In something related I was discussing the situation this evening & its clear the vote will be closer than many (inc. me) expected.

Its also clear the Nats will not quit & indeed a close No vote will only encourage them to go again in 5-10 years time.

In that event, who then in their right mind is going to invest heavily in Scotland in the meantime & just how many businesses are in fact going to de-camp out of Scotland in the following 5-10 years in order to locate themselves somewhere more stable & more predictable?

Things will not be the same again in Scotland whatever the result - and there is only one group of s to blame for that.

[simoid]

AstonZagato said:

I once likened the debate (and my role in it) as being like being around while a mate being told by a car salesman that he can buy a new Lada that will do more miles to the gallon than a Prius, be more comfortable than a Rolls Royce, outperform a Ferrari and get him laid. The salesman is clearly lying. All I need to do is point this out to my mate, show him the flaws in the arguments. Surely he will listen to common sense?

However, the mate is starting to agree with the car salesman. He ignores facts that are staring him the face. He wants to believe what is patently complete pish.

I can't be bothered anymore to stop him making the mistake of his life. In fact, I'm starting to think it will be amusing to watch and I can take the piss for ever as he regrets his decision and whines about it for years.

That's where I am. I comment on Facebook and get told an unbelievable about of ste in return, and it's disheartening to read what my mates post and like. But I know many of my other friends are seeing what I write, and how my logic tears through the nonsense. My good friends know and trust my logic.

Us sensible Scots NEED to push home how much we think we should vote no.

[Wombat3]

simoid said:

AstonZagato said:

I once likened the debate (and my role in it) as being like being around while a mate being told by a car salesman that he can buy a new Lada that will do more miles to the gallon than a Prius, be more comfortable than a Rolls Royce, outperform a Ferrari and get him laid. The salesman is clearly lying. All I need to do is point this out to my mate, show him the flaws in the arguments. Surely he will listen to common sense?

However, the mate is starting to agree with the car salesman. He ignores facts that are staring him the face. He wants to believe what is patently complete pish.

I can't be bothered anymore to stop him making the mistake of his life. In fact, I'm starting to think it will be amusing to watch and I can take the piss for ever as he regrets his decision and whines about it for years.

That's where I am. I comment on Facebook and get told an unbelievable about of ste in return, and it's disheartening to read what my mates post and like. But I know many of my other friends are seeing what I write, and how my logic tears through the nonsense. My good friends know and trust my logic.

Us sensible Scots NEED to push home how much we think we should vote no.

There have been a lot of polls on this now & its clear the gap is closing. But I also think there is a significant "silent majority" who will deliver a "No" vote

The key to what happens next is how big a margin there is. If its not that big it will not shut down the Nationalist tts, indeed it will only encourage them to go again. The uncertainty andlack of investment in Scotland will continue, indeed it will get worse because it will be clear that the next time they don't need
much more to make it over the line.

Salmond has bet (everyone's) farm on this thing and whatever the result there is going to be a price for it.

[Cobnapint]

But isn't it a bit sad that the only consideration many people are giving to justify a No is because of the security the BoE offers.

Where's the British spirit gone? What's really being said is 'we don't really want to be friends with you, but we'll be nice to your face cos' you might be able to get us out the st one day'.

Cheers then!

[fluffnik]

chrisispringles said:

They don't have legislative competence to do that. The Scotland Act 1998 reserves legislative competence over the Union entirely for Westminster. Scotland doesn't have the power to repeal it.

Parliament may not, but the sovereign Scottish people do.

[davepoth]

fluffnik said:

chrisispringles said:

They don't have legislative competence to do that. The Scotland Act 1998 reserves legislative competence over the Union entirely for Westminster. Scotland doesn't have the power to repeal it.

Parliament may not, but the sovereign Scottish people do.

Nope. You gave that away in 1707. The only way you get independence is if the English allow it. Sorry.

[chrisispringles]

fluffnik said:

Parliament may not, but the sovereign Scottish people do.

I know you won't answer this, because you haven't the umpteen other times, but if the settled will of the 'sovereign Scottish people' is to remain part of the UK will you respect and accept it?

Also, you're suggesting a unilateral declaration of independence. That's not going to serve us well is it? There's no way in hell that Spain will even recognise our nationhood, so joining the EU would be out of the question.

It's also in a post-yes Scotland's interest to be as sweet and lovely to the rUK as possible. Have a read of this. We only have a legal right to 8% of the oil, any more than that is entirely at Westminster's discretion. Any attempt by Scotland to take control of it all after a unilateral declaration of independence would be an act of war. Is that really in our best interests? I don't anticipate a meaningful response on this either.

It's simply not in our interests to be independent, let alone doing so unilaterally. The thing is the Yessirs don't care. It's independence at any cost, even if the cost is permenantly destroying Scotland.

[Wombat3]

fluffnik said:

chrisispringles said:

They don't have legislative competence to do that. The Scotland Act 1998 reserves legislative competence over the Union entirely for Westminster. Scotland doesn't have the power to repeal it.

Parliament may not, but the sovereign Scottish people do.

Made up st again with zero legal or constitutional foundation

[simoid]

Cobnapint said:

But isn't it a bit sad that the only consideration many people are giving to justify a No is because of the security the BoE offers.

Where's the British spirit gone? What's really being said is 'we don't really want to be friends with you, but we'll be nice to your face cos' you might be able to get us out the st one day'.

Cheers then!

Indeed. We've been together for 300 years, for better and worse.

The SNP want to sell Scotland the "better" and remove the perceived "worse". Life doesn't work like that.

fking stinks.

[simoid]

On the "British" thing, I feel British and describe myself as so. Or Scottish. I'm not even sure what I say when foreigners ask me, I think I say Scottish tbh.

One thing that I hear is that London feels like a foreign country to some Scots. Never get how this has any relevance to the independence issue. London probably feels foreign to 3/4 of the UK, and it does to me too.

Aberdeen and Arisaig feel pretty fking foreign to me too but I don't want to go splitting countries up because of it.

I despair. Well, almost, but hope and desire for the UK to stick together keep me going.

[bigkeeko]

On the latest poll news.

I can`t say I`m surprised. Facebook and youngsters has a lot to answer for. I`ve never read so much complete sh**e in my life from young dopey Yes voters. Yesterday my girlfriends teenage son came in to the house and blurted out "They say Scotland will be rich if we vote yes". Now he`s young, stunned, clueless and full of nonsense. Add that to immature and lacking in any kind of political or economic understanding and like most young people, subject to peer pressure and we`re looking at a trump card from Salmond with the lowered age for voting.
Now, two days before, my niece, who is well educated (ish) works in the bank and has always been level headed come out with this gem. "I`m voting yes because the No argument revolves round condemning the Yes campaign. The Yes campaign is more appealing and No offers nothing."

It appears to me that the young and impressionable will decide this. In truth, it is the Yes campaign that has misled Scotland by telling people that anything good that we have now as part of the UK will not change but everything bad will disappear. This just insults the older voters intelligence, especially ones who have thought things through and as we all know, teenagers and the young NEVER think things through.

Edited by bigkeeko on Tuesday 2nd September 01:40

[Cobnapint]

simoid said:

Aberdeen and Arisaig feel pretty fking foreign to me too but I don't want to go splitting countries up because of it.

out loud.

Will the Queen want to holiday in a foreign country though? Will we be seeing Balmoral up on Rightmove on the 19th..?

[scorp]

bigkeeko said:

It appears to me that the young and impressionable will decide this. In truth, it is the Yes campaign that has misled Scotland by telling people that anything good that we have now as part of the UK will not change but everything bad will disappear. This just insults the older voters intelligence, especially ones who have thought things through and as we all know, teenagers and the young NEVER think things through.

That sounds great, we should lower the voting age.