Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
bigkeeko said:
Take a walk through any town centre in Scotland during the day. You`ll see more trackie bottom/scuffed trainer types than you`d want to. The buggy with the farmfoods bags hanging off it with the fat thing smoking roll ups with her man with the teeth missing. Then you have the `never worked in his puff` guy with the walking stick. 10 yards down the road you have the `smackhead`, then further along another crowd of subsidy junkies that feel the world owes them something. Not forgetting Mr `I`m going for invalidity`, like it`s some kind of entitlement.
These characters will make up a good percentage of your Yes voters as sadly they make up a good chunk of our population and the majority will feel aggrieved at Mr `Out working with the nice car` as he is doing ok while they have made a Berkley Hunt of their life.
Don`t think for one minute these grudge filled people will pull their socks up and make an independent Scotland work. They`ll be looking to see what it offers them and complain when it doesn`t deliver.
You've been to Airdrie and Coatbridge as well then!These characters will make up a good percentage of your Yes voters as sadly they make up a good chunk of our population and the majority will feel aggrieved at Mr `Out working with the nice car` as he is doing ok while they have made a Berkley Hunt of their life.
Don`t think for one minute these grudge filled people will pull their socks up and make an independent Scotland work. They`ll be looking to see what it offers them and complain when it doesn`t deliver.
Edited by bigkeeko on Tuesday 2nd September 13:52
bigkeeko said:
....... They`ll be looking to see what it offers them and complain when it doesn`t deliver.
Yep - a point I made a couple of days back - albeit a little more succinctly 
Those who want independence the most are likely to be the very people who will contribute least to their new independent 'land of milk and honey'.
The SNP have essentially promised them everything they get now without having to lift a finger - but with cream and a cherry on top.......who wouldn't vote for that.
If the SNP turned around and said "you can have a successful independent country - but its going to take you getting off your backside and putting in some hard graft to achieve it" - I bet support would be rather less enthusiastic.
The reality is though - that is exactly what it's going to take.......and iScotland will have nobody to blame but itself if it can't make it work.
jamiebae said:
It amazes me that the BT campaign hasn't managed to shoot down most of the SNP's crazy claims for the drivel that they are, but I clearly the average intelligence of a large amount of the population doesn't lend itself to reasoned economic and political argument.
The problem is that they have shot down the arguments. All of them as far as I can see.But they are using logic (You'll be financially borked if you all vote yes), against emotion (I don't like this, your points are boring, so anything else must be better than no likey and boring. Freedoom!)
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
Wiggleyarse - is this a nasty BT supporter kicking a peaceful and innocent Yes supporter?
Works both ways.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
Of course you being a blindfolded face painted arse can't see the baying mobWorks both ways.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
t seems to be forgotten because god forbid BT supporters, tories and you know, normal right of centre voters, not be mixed in with the right wing fascists...remember Thatcher!!!Im so sick of this being trotted out, like the 'Yes Campaign office' Wheelie bin fire.
the guy poked his foot out at the woman coming at him, he didn't kick her, i've seen the BBC footage from a few angles, the woman was angry that he basically shoved her away using his leg (againit wasn't a quick thing, he lifted his leg towards her slowly) but as he was higher up, the Yes campo are screaming that he tried to kick her in the head....
Then she got a group of the Yes supporters giving her consoling hugs....suddenly she is screaming at the guy, then 'suddenly' she is pregnant.....suddenly! A BT supporter kicked a pregnant woman to the ground.
What in fact happened was, right wing t
t, tried to shove away a screaming yes campaigner from his soapbox, she shouted back and told him to F off, then some other yes supporters egged her on and all crowded him, intimidating the guy, and then accusations of kicking a preganant woman.Its all so much b
ks now I cant wait till the 19th and it all either goes to st (still think its unlikely) or a No vote, and the Yes bunch get exactly what they want, what we already have under the Union, but now feel they finally got one over the torires, and now we have no financial back up and find out we do have debt, we aren't in europ and are rather fked...but hey, its all for our future children!Funk said:
I'm so fed up with the Yes lies going unchallenged. They keep getting trotted out and the hard-of-thinking continue to believe them.
Case in point: "Scotland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world."
Lies. Scotland is NOT one of the wealthiest countries in the world, it's running a £1bn/mo deficit and is only propped up by being part of the UK.
The claim that an iScotland would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world is based on a single statistic - GDP per capita (the total size of the Scottish economy including oil, divided by the population of Scotland).Case in point: "Scotland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world."
Lies. Scotland is NOT one of the wealthiest countries in the world, it's running a £1bn/mo deficit and is only propped up by being part of the UK.
The Yes campaign say that as an iScotland would have one of the highest GDP per capita of any country in the world (and higher than the rUK) and that this means that they will be one of the wealthiest.
The problem with using just one economic indicator to show that a country is or isn't wealthy is that it can be very misleading. Even using the Yes campaigns own tables an iScotland will not be as wealthy as the Republic of Ireland and anyone who has a memory longer than a goldfish might recall that Ireland effectively went bust in 2010 and had to be bailed out by the EU/IMF/UK.
GDP per capita takes no account of the scale of the deficit an iScotland would face so as a measure of wealth it is of very limited use.
ralphrj said:
The claim that an iScotland would be one of the wealthiest countries in the world is based on a single statistic - GDP per capita (the total size of the Scottish economy including oil, divided by the population of Scotland).
There is also a massive flaw in that approach. The current GDP per capita figure has been obtained while Scotland is still part of the UK.It's a rather large assumption on the nationalist side that iScotland's GDP would be the same or larger when it exits the UK.
Moonhawk said:
There is also a massive flaw in that approach. The current GDP per capita figure has been obtained while Scotland is still part of the UK.
It's a rather large assumption on the nationalist side that iScotland's GDP would be the same or larger when it exits the UK.
Correct.It's a rather large assumption on the nationalist side that iScotland's GDP would be the same or larger when it exits the UK.
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the Financial Services sector which, without a lender of last resort, is likely to relocate?
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the shipbuilders which will no longer be awarded contracts to build ships for the Royal Navy?
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the over representation of UK government departments which will be transferred back to rUK?
Etc.
Munter said:
That's the scary point.
19th Sept: A Yes win announced
20th Sept: Negotiations start
25th Sept: Nats realise they are not going to get what they voted for
26-28th Sept: Nats Riot (Well it's the weekend, nothing else to do)
I think it'll be more of a "wait a minute......., we've been had" moment, but I don't think it'll be violent - they can just blame the evil Tory government we don't actually have for all their woes when the realise it wont work as the Yes campaigners have suggested it will. By then, probably a year or so from now as these things will take time to work out, I would be pissing in my pants at the whole situation.19th Sept: A Yes win announced
20th Sept: Negotiations start
25th Sept: Nats realise they are not going to get what they voted for
26-28th Sept: Nats Riot (Well it's the weekend, nothing else to do)
Rick_1138 said:
Hearing Salmond go on about the increase in Yesvote in the recent Poll he was saying:
"The increase in registered voters are doing so to vote yes, and an increase in undecided voters whoe are voting yes and some No voters are obviously changing to yes!"
I had to stop myself tearing my radio out of the car in disgust at the blatant bks.
he has no idea how the people registering will vote, and saying No voters are now voting yes is just total ste.
Like I said before, he could out-bulls"The increase in registered voters are doing so to vote yes, and an increase in undecided voters whoe are voting yes and some No voters are obviously changing to yes!"
I had to stop myself tearing my radio out of the car in disgust at the blatant b
ks.he has no idea how the people registering will vote, and saying No voters are now voting yes is just total s
te.t a pathological liar. He's as brass necked as you can get.Axionknight said:
Munter said:
That's the scary point.
19th Sept: A Yes win announced
20th Sept: Negotiations start
25th Sept: Nats realise they are not going to get what they voted for
26-28th Sept: Nats Riot (Well it's the weekend, nothing else to do)
I think it'll be more of a "wait a minute......., we've been had" moment, but I don't think it'll be violent - they can just blame the evil Tory government we don't actually have for all their woes when the realise it wont work as the Yes campaigners have suggested it will. By then, probably a year or so from now as these things will take time to work out, I would be pissing in my pants at the whole situation.19th Sept: A Yes win announced
20th Sept: Negotiations start
25th Sept: Nats realise they are not going to get what they voted for
26-28th Sept: Nats Riot (Well it's the weekend, nothing else to do)
t this whole thing has stirred up on both sides of the border/rUK. That’s why I’d prefer to see a landslide No so it can’t be up for debate like 65% plus. Anything in the 50’s and queue even worse whinges from the yessers and it to be back on the agenda for a another referendum in the not too distant future if it is relatively close.Both in the news and anecdotally despite living close to the border, your average Joe doesn’t seem to have a clue or couldn’t give two……..
a311 said:
Anything in the 50’s and queue even worse whinges from the yessers and it to be back on the agenda for a another referendum in the not too distant future if it is relatively close.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The power to hold a referendum is held by Westminster not by Holyrood and was temporarily loaned to enable this referendum in the Edinburgh Agreement. The Edinburgh Agreement allows for a (presumably one only) referendum before the end of 2014.Based on the stunts the SNP have pulled during this campaign no Westminster government will sanction another referendum until:
1. a significant enough period of time has passed that could justify re-asking the question,
2. the oil has run out and there will be no pretending that Scotland is a wealthy country being held back by the rUK.
30 years should cover both events.
The SNP could try a unilateral declaration of independence but I doubt it - they can't possibly be that stupid.
a311 said:
I don’t think it can be underestimated just how much bad st this whole thing has stirred up on both sides of the border/rUK. That’s why I’d prefer to see a landslide No so it can’t be up for debate like 65% plus. Anything in the 50’s and queue even worse whinges from the yessers and it to be back on the agenda for a another referendum in the not too distant future if it is relatively close.
I agree but think there should be a win for the Yes. That way when it does all go Pete Tong they cant say anything, they got what they asked for. Personally I wouldn't let them back in but if they were allowed back at least there wouldn't be any whinging like this for decades.t this whole thing has stirred up on both sides of the border/rUK. That’s why I’d prefer to see a landslide No so it can’t be up for debate like 65% plus. Anything in the 50’s and queue even worse whinges from the yessers and it to be back on the agenda for a another referendum in the not too distant future if it is relatively close.ralphrj said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The power to hold a referendum is held by Westminster not by Holyrood and was temporarily loaned to enable this referendum in the Edinburgh Agreement. The Edinburgh Agreement allows for a (presumably one only) referendum before the end of 2014.
Based on the stunts the SNP have pulled during this campaign no Westminster government will sanction another referendum until:
1. a significant enough period of time has passed that could justify re-asking the question,
2. the oil has run out and there will be no pretending that Scotland is a wealthy country being held back by the rUK.
30 years should cover both events.
The SNP could try a unilateral declaration of independence but I doubt it - they can't possibly be that stupid.
How about holding a referendum, stating that they want a referendum, if you follow me? Could something along those lines be used to give them a mandate to ask/demand a new independence vote, providing a majority or large percentage of the vote backs it??Based on the stunts the SNP have pulled during this campaign no Westminster government will sanction another referendum until:
1. a significant enough period of time has passed that could justify re-asking the question,
2. the oil has run out and there will be no pretending that Scotland is a wealthy country being held back by the rUK.
30 years should cover both events.
The SNP could try a unilateral declaration of independence but I doubt it - they can't possibly be that stupid.
ralphrj said:
Correct.
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the Financial Services sector which, without a lender of last resort, is likely to relocate?
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the shipbuilders which will no longer be awarded contracts to build ships for the Royal Navy?
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the over representation of UK government departments which will be transferred back to rUK?
Etc.
How much is from trade/sales into England, Wales and NI - some of which may dry up if people in these regions perceive a Yes vote as a kick in the teeth.How much of Scotland's GDP is from the Financial Services sector which, without a lender of last resort, is likely to relocate?
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the shipbuilders which will no longer be awarded contracts to build ships for the Royal Navy?
How much of Scotland's GDP is from the over representation of UK government departments which will be transferred back to rUK?
Etc.
Axionknight said:
......they can just blame the evil Tory government we don't actually have for all their woes when the realise it wont work as the Yes campaigners have suggested it will.
Yep - in that respect then SNP have the bases covered. They have made promises (many of which are baseless). They get to take credit for those that are delivered and get to blame Westminster for any that aren't (because Westminster will have denied them).
Either way - they come out smelling of roses and the evil sassenachs over the border will have oppressed the poor scots once again.
Einion Yrth said:
Moonhawk said:
How much is from trade/sales into England, Wales and NI - some of which may dry up if people in these regions perceive a Yes vote as a kick in the teeth.
The Japanese are making some very decent whiskies these days.
They make ships as well I believe.The Irish have a good whisky business going also. Might ... pass on their ships though....
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