Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5

[Oakey]

Nick Grant said:

I had this conversation with someone at work the other day. Baring in mind I work at a bank. I asked him why he wanted to use the pound anyway if he wanted independence. He said that he didn't and didn't want a lender of last resort anyway and the banks should have been allowed to fail. I pointed out that had the banks been allowed to collapse then none of use would have a job. "Well I would be persuing another career now" was his response. WOW! No concept of the impact that would have had on the rest of the economy at all.

Yeah, fk it, right?! "Who gives a st" seems to be the standard response

My brother says "Edinburgh is a financial hub" and I said "Lloyds have just literally just said they may move to London". "Oh, well more business for BoS and RBS then". But... they're owned by Lloyds!!!!

[Axionknight]

At the risk of being offensive, for which I am sorry, surely the last few posts containing anecdotes are made up, I mean, surely people cannot be that thick, whilst still being functioning, tax paying, voting, adults? :S

[Wombat3]

Oakey said:

Nick Grant said:

I had this conversation with someone at work the other day. Baring in mind I work at a bank. I asked him why he wanted to use the pound anyway if he wanted independence. He said that he didn't and didn't want a lender of last resort anyway and the banks should have been allowed to fail. I pointed out that had the banks been allowed to collapse then none of use would have a job. "Well I would be persuing another career now" was his response. WOW! No concept of the impact that would have had on the rest of the economy at all.

Yeah, fk it, right?! "Who gives a st" seems to be the standard response

My brother says "Edinburgh is a financial hub" and I said "Lloyds have just literally just said they may move to London". "Oh, well more business for BoS and RBS then". But... they're owned by Lloyds!!!!

BoS is , RBS seems to be largely owned by HMG.

All irrelevant though, both these banks would need to domicile themselves where their customers are - i.e. London. I suspect that trying to do business as a Scottish bank in rUK post a "Yes and fk off you English tts" vote might not be so easy. Cue the change of names to Nat West Group and Lloyds Halifax (or something similar).

[S13_Alan]

Axionknight said:

At the risk of being offensive, for which I am sorry, surely the last few posts containing anecdotes are made up, I mean, surely people cannot be that thick, whilst still being functioning, tax paying, voting, adults? :S

It's always scared me when you think about how smart the average person is then remember half of them are still stupider than that.

[Oakey]

Axionknight said:

At the risk of being offensive, for which I am sorry, surely the last few posts containing anecdotes are made up, I mean, surely people cannot be that thick, whilst still being functioning, tax paying, voting, adults? :S

But he's not stupid. This is what I don't get. He just seems to be blindly regurgitating the stuff the Yes camp says without actually checking into any of it.

He's already done the usual 'it's just Westminster scaremongering' and 'doomsday propaganda" and that if the EU doesn't grant Scotland entry it'll be seen as 'a punishment from rUK'. No, they'll be refused because you have no fking currency!

He says "politics should be done on a local level" to which my response was "but then the wealthy areas would keep all the wealth to themselves and everyone else would be fked!"

He says "England is a joke with its warmongering and surveillance bullst. Its empire days are over, and i'd quite like to see it eat some humble pie"

How do people get to that level of self loathing?

Finally, this gem

"Do you not have the slightest worry that just maybe scotland has been a huge net contributor and that england would suffer more from this than scotland?"

But.. they aren't, are they?

[AstonZagato]

[Oakey]

Is, is that real?

[Moonhawk]

Oakey said:

Is, is that real?

Please say yes.....please say yes........

[Oakey]

I want to say it's from Viz but you never know!

[Mrr T]

Oakey said:

My brother, an Englishman living in Glasgow also seems to have been sucked in. He's usually pretty smart but seems to have adopted the stance of the usual Yes supporter without actually doing any research.

He said "What exactly would stop them using the pound". I reply "lender of last resort?". He says "Cambodia uses the USD as a full on stable currency". "But Cambodia is a tinpot third world country with a GDP of $12billion and the population live in poverty! Is that what Scotland should aspire to?".

He genuinely thinks it'll just be 'business as usual' in post independent Scotland. It's as if they think that 'independence' simply means keeping the status quo except where it comes to money, which they'll get to keep all of and spend as they wish.

That they won't have their own currency, or a lender of last resort in the event st hits the fan, or EU membership, or that business might migrate en-masse from Scotland, etc are concepts they simply refuse to believe.

Its not just LOLR as important is the BOE is banker to the UK government. It would not want to act as banker to the Scottish government because that would mean a default by Scotland would end up as an rUK problem.

It been suggested other countries do not have a currency or a central bank. As yet I cannot find one. Both Panama and Cambodia do have a currency and a central bank.

[Oakey]

Mrr T said:

Its not just LOLR as important is the BOE is banker to the UK government. It would not want to act as banker to the Scottish government because that would mean a default by Scotland would end up as an rUK problem.

It been suggested other countries do not have a currency or a central bank. As yet I cannot find one. Both Panama and Cambodia do have a currency and a central bank.

You're actually talking about reasons against a currency union though, right? He actually meant in the event of no currency union, why couldn't they just continue to use the pound. Having no lender of last resort was just the first thing to spring to mind. The obvious one is why would a newly independent Scotland want their economy tied to the very country they just rid themselves of.

[Moonhawk]

Oakey said:

The obvious one is why would a newly independent Scotland want their economy tied to the very country they just rid themselves of.

Well it would continue to give them somebody to blame should things not go swimmingly. The evil Tory lead BoE is stopping us or making it difficult for us........blah blah.

[andymadmak]

A question or two for the Nationalists on here.
So, imagine if Scotland votes yes, and imagine that rUK does EXACTLY WHAT EVERY POLITICAL PARTY AND THE MAJORITY OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC has said they will do and refuse a currency union. (yes yes, I know it's just a big bluff according to you, but humour me eh?)


1. If Scotland does as Salmond has threatened to do and defaults on its share of the UK national debt, do you think that rUK will continue to finance Scotlands deficit up to the point of separation (currently running at around 1billion per month on just about every sensible analysts calculator) ?

2. If rUK does not continue to fund Scotlands deficit, and if you are unable to borrow as a result of the default above, what meaningful cuts to public services will you be happy to see implemented in order to make the IMMEDIATE necessary savings?

[AstonZagato]

Oakey said:

I want to say it's from Viz but you never know!

It is not my picture but it very much looks like Viz - Fat Slags to the right.

[confused_buyer]

Moonhawk said:

Well it would continue to give them somebody to blame should things not go swimmingly. The evil Tory lead BoE is stopping us or making it difficult for us........blah blah.

I can imagine the reaction from an independent Scotland when London veto their budget including a massive deficit. "The English are making ill Scots be turned out of hospital etc.". Once again an excuse for an independent Scottish Government to blame everyone but themselves.

The rUK would be stark, staring bonkers to land themselves in such a position. Fortunately, they're not quite mad enough, so I don't think they will.

It is also pretty bonkers for Scotland. I mean, you have 59 MP's in parliament of a country which has a big say over your economy. You drop that representation and then still want that parliament to have a massive say over your economy.

[anonymous-user]

AstonZagato said:

* Fewer Labour MPs

• Relocation of public sector workers to rUK
• Relocation of Scottish banks to UK
• Relocation of shipbuilding
• Redirecting Barnett payments to NI, Wales and NE
• Businesses looking to relocate to a bigger market flooding into Northern England

I am starting to hope that we do see a Yes. Great for the rUK.

I agree. A year ago I couldn't care less if Scotland left the Union or not, I mean I thought it was a shame and poorly thought out but fair enough. Now after a year of constant moaning and painfully idiotic bleating I just wish they would fvck off, quit moaning and take their disasterous Labour MP's with them. Honestly the only reason I don't want them to leave is that you know they will be back with the begging bowl in a couple of years when the EU can't be arsed with them and the bond markets tell Holyrood to go fvck themselves.

[Axionknight]

andymadmak said:

A question or two for the Nationalists on here.
So, imagine if Scotland votes yes, and imagine that rUK does EXACTLY WHAT EVERY POLITICAL PARTY AND THE MAJORITY OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC has said they will do and refuse a currency union. (yes yes, I know it's just a big bluff according to you, but humour me eh?)


1. If Scotland does as Salmond has threatened to do and defaults on its share of the UK national debt, do you think that rUK will continue to finance Scotlands deficit up to the point of separation (currently running at around 1billion per month on just about every sensible analysts calculator) ?

2. If rUK does not continue to fund Scotlands deficit, and if you are unable to borrow as a result of the default above, what meaningful cuts to public services will you be happy to see implemented in order to make the IMMEDIATE necessary savings?

Woah there pal, you can't come in here, asking sensible questions like that - what are you, some Anti Scottish, Tory grandee or something?

[Moonhawk]

andymadmak said:

1. If Scotland does as Salmond has threatened to do and defaults on its share of the UK national debt, do you think that rUK will continue to finance Scotlands deficit up to the point of separation (currently running at around 1billion per month on just about every sensible analysts calculator) ?

The problem is - defaulting on the debt isn't just a straight forward as simply tuning your back and walking away.

The debt will be on the negotiating table along with all the assets and liabilities that the UK currently holds. If iScotland refuses to take some of those liabilities - rUK can likewise refuse to release assets to that value.

To quote a scot from a great song:

"if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding........how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat......"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pouSGjKIexw&t=8...

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 3rd September 15:28

[Zod]

I think the answer to Faslane should be the US telling Scotland, "If you wnat to join NATO, you must give the rUK a 999 year lease on Faslane".

[Oakey]

What exactly would iScotland be bringing to the NATO table? Or are they going to keep the carriers they're building as well as turn their back on the debt?

Edited by Oakey on Wednesday 3rd September 15:57