Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 5
Discussion
pcvdriver said:
Yes, I am ashamed of idiots like the muppet you have highlighted. Just so you understand and take on-board mentally (time to get the extra-thick crayons out I DO NOT FIND RACISM ACCEPTABLE!!! I ABHOR RACISM!!! RACISM HAS NO PLACE IN OUR MODERN WORLD!!!
It is of course good that you reject racism. So why do you tolerate the vicious attacks by the SNP on the English? This is racism.
The fact that the SNP portray the Scots as victims to the oppressive English in Westminster does not affect the fact that they are demonizing the English, and in doing so launching an attack against a group of people. This is creating divisions and hatred, which can be plainly seen in much of the Yes campaigns - both officially sanctioned and the more base such as wingsoversomerset.
It is also obvious that the more educated Scots see through this bile and rightly reject it for what it is.
It is very depressing to see those who do not, and who have been taken in with the fake promises and lies.
What is concerning to me is that the voices of those rejecting the nonsense are not louder and more prominently featured in the media.
bodysnatcher said:
A.J.M said:
Body snatcher is telling big fat lies!
I live 3 miles from Airdrie and I can say its a s
t hole! 
Where abouts did you live in Airdrie...
OK, it was joke, those of you that know Airdie will see why Southeast England was appealing to this young lad.I live 3 miles from Airdrie and I can say its a s
t hole! Where abouts did you live in Airdrie...
Cairnhill
BTW
I can fully understand why you left, well done for leaving.
You'll understand why I also want to leave the area. Canada is slightly different to the Southeast though...
Although there is a good chippy in Cairnhill that does 2 10inch pizzas for £5 on a Monday night. Freshly made and they are quite nice.
Totally off topic though.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Did you ever tell us those facts you were going to tell us after your whatever it was?
Oh no, of course you didn't, how silly of me.
I told you what I was able to. Oh no, of course you didn't, how silly of me.
See you're getting a proverbial kicking in the other Scottish independence thread!
I must therefore conclude that you either don't know, or are embarrassed to tell us because it hurts the case for independence.
I wouldn't say I'm getting a kicking, however, as you're the expert in failed debating I'll take your observations on board.
I said I wasn't prepared to share that information on a public forum as it's commercially sensitive. We've carried out various impact assessments as any UK wide organising would. Simples.
You then said it wasn't commercially sensitive as no one here knows who I work for.
I'll tell you one thing though - it's nowhere near as high as you were suggsting.
///ajd said:
Edinburger said:
Ajd - you are an utter bell end.
You're trying to incite hatred where none exists. How dare you compare Nazi persecution of Jews to your fabricated hatred of England by Scots?
Please explain the "fact that pcv and burger think their 'race' of scots is fairer, purer and more morally upstanding than other lesser 'races', like those evil tory englanders".
What the fk are you talking about?
Bell end is a great insult, but on this occasion not warranted.You're trying to incite hatred where none exists. How dare you compare Nazi persecution of Jews to your fabricated hatred of England by Scots?
Please explain the "fact that pcv and burger think their 'race' of scots is fairer, purer and more morally upstanding than other lesser 'races', like those evil tory englanders".
What the f
k are you talking about?What I'm talking about is how Nationalists, through the generations have the same strategy. Demonise a group, turn it into a figure of hate, and use it to unite another group.
This is happening with the SNP. You say they are not doing this, they are not inciting hate, none exists? Really, well I can tell you that the venom and bile from the Yes campaign feels pretty real when you are on the end of it. This is also typical of the Yes sheep and followers of nationalists in the past - they don't see the evil until way too late. They justify in their own minds - just as you have done above - that discriminating against the english is ok as they 'deserve it'.
Its ugly, you appear to be a part of it - and it originates from the SNP, nowhere else. Face it!
Yes, some a small minority of Scottish people will hate the English. Just as a small minority of English people will hate black people, and a small minority of Welsh people will hate Jews and a small minority of German people will hate the Poles and a small minority of French people will hate gingers.
That's life in those circles but that's a small, very small, part of society.
To suggest that Scottish nationalism is all about a hatred of the English is just so far off the mark it barely merits a discussion. But it's very said that people still think this.
Read this: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/robin-mcal...
Edinburger said:
Yes, some a small minority of Scottish people will hate the English. Just as a small minority of English people will hate black people, and a small minority of Welsh people will hate Jews and a small minority of German people will hate the Poles and a small minority of French people will hate gingers.
Racist groups are usually publicly condemned in England as tolerance of them would imply acceptance of those views..Edinburger said:
Grow up, simoid.
I said I wasn't prepared to share that information on a public forum as it's commercially sensitive. We've carried out various impact assessments as any UK wide organising would. Simples.
You then said it wasn't commercially sensitive as no one here knows who I work for.
I'll tell you one thing though - it's nowhere near as high as you were suggsting.
Let's think about the actual extra costsI said I wasn't prepared to share that information on a public forum as it's commercially sensitive. We've carried out various impact assessments as any UK wide organising would. Simples.
You then said it wasn't commercially sensitive as no one here knows who I work for.
I'll tell you one thing though - it's nowhere near as high as you were suggsting.
1. The part which stays in Scotland wil need to be externally audited
2. Unless there is bandwidth within existing roles you will need an operational head a Finance Manager HR Business partner a legal/commercial head, extra heads in payroll and central finance for the VAT and stat accounting.
3. There may be restructuring costs
4. If the offices within Scotland are not big enough or don't exist then you will needs these additional costs eating into margins
5. Forign currency exchange exposure - for both the rUK and Scotland for business to each other
6. Forign exchange costs to transfer funds between the two companies
7. Scottish bank accounts along with any associated costs of those accounts
8. Setting up a different legal company within the accounting and Management info systems (your going to need another head ongoing in IT plus the initial costs to make the set up- which could be easy and cheap but then again maybe not depending on how vanilla the IT systems are in businesses if they are not then individual reprogramming/development would be required.
Bound to be more but your talking millions even based on a relatively small sized company.
For some of course they might only have a tiny business operating and actually selling wthin Scotland - some companies might decide the effort is simply not worth it all that extra effort for pretty much negligible £ profits as such elect not to operate there.
toppstuff said:
So, welcome back.
Lets get back to business.
1. Currency. No formal sharing. Scottish central bank will have to peg to the GBP. How much in reserves will you need to hold and what does this do the Salmonds sums? Has ANYONE done the maths?
2. EU at the very least deflects Scottish membership for a few years - at the worst even outright rejects it. What will you do?
3. Debts. What will you do?
4. UK moves shipyard business to UK. What will you do?
And this is only getting started...
If you can't at least pretend to answer these questions, then you have a new level of credibility which will have to go into negative numbers ( given that it is already Zero ).
Over to you.
Seriously fire them to the Scottish government.Lets get back to business.
1. Currency. No formal sharing. Scottish central bank will have to peg to the GBP. How much in reserves will you need to hold and what does this do the Salmonds sums? Has ANYONE done the maths?
2. EU at the very least deflects Scottish membership for a few years - at the worst even outright rejects it. What will you do?
3. Debts. What will you do?
4. UK moves shipyard business to UK. What will you do?
And this is only getting started...
If you can't at least pretend to answer these questions, then you have a new level of credibility which will have to go into negative numbers ( given that it is already Zero ).
Over to you.
I asked them a simple question in November and they got back to me a few months later with a non-answer and a link to some propaganda.
Welshbeef said:
simoid said:
Seriously fire them to the Scottish government.
I asked them a simple question in November and they got back to me a few months later with a non-answer and a link to some propaganda.
So did you follow that up ? I asked them a simple question in November and they got back to me a few months later with a non-answer and a link to some propaganda.
I think it was Edinburger on the other end of the wire, tbh.
Edinburger said:
///ajd said:
Edinburger said:
Ajd - you are an utter bell end.
You're trying to incite hatred where none exists. How dare you compare Nazi persecution of Jews to your fabricated hatred of England by Scots?
Please explain the "fact that pcv and burger think their 'race' of scots is fairer, purer and more morally upstanding than other lesser 'races', like those evil tory englanders".
What the fk are you talking about?
Bell end is a great insult, but on this occasion not warranted.You're trying to incite hatred where none exists. How dare you compare Nazi persecution of Jews to your fabricated hatred of England by Scots?
Please explain the "fact that pcv and burger think their 'race' of scots is fairer, purer and more morally upstanding than other lesser 'races', like those evil tory englanders".
What the f
k are you talking about?What I'm talking about is how Nationalists, through the generations have the same strategy. Demonise a group, turn it into a figure of hate, and use it to unite another group.
This is happening with the SNP. You say they are not doing this, they are not inciting hate, none exists? Really, well I can tell you that the venom and bile from the Yes campaign feels pretty real when you are on the end of it. This is also typical of the Yes sheep and followers of nationalists in the past - they don't see the evil until way too late. They justify in their own minds - just as you have done above - that discriminating against the english is ok as they 'deserve it'.
Its ugly, you appear to be a part of it - and it originates from the SNP, nowhere else. Face it!
Yes, some a small minority of Scottish people will hate the English. Just as a small minority of English people will hate black people, and a small minority of Welsh people will hate Jews and a small minority of German people will hate the Poles and a small minority of French people will hate gingers.
That's life in those circles but that's a small, very small, part of society.
To suggest that Scottish nationalism is all about a hatred of the English is just so far off the mark it barely merits a discussion. But it's very said that people still think this.
Read this: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/robin-mcal...
You say 'I'm so wrong', but I'm afriad that is just the same as telling a women in the 1970s that she is so wrong to be offended by the poster of a bared naked page 3 model stuck on the workshop wall. You would cringe now if someone said that today - some scots will look back or are already cringing about some of the offensive bile spewing from rapid SNP mouths.
///ajd said:
That link is exactly the sort of insidious 'not me, I'm innocent' deflection that riddles the Yes campaign. They pour out huge anti westminster bile and yet try and pretend they are not being nasty to the rUK. It is ugly and outrageous. It is someone elses fault the SNP want to discriminate against the english. This is classic stuff. A classic 'struggle' as one former Nationalist might put it.
You say 'I'm so wrong', but I'm afriad that is just the same as telling a women in the 1970s that she is so wrong to be offended by the poster of a bared naked page 3 model stuck on the workshop wall. You would cringe now if someone said that today - some scots will look back or are already cringing about some of the offensive bile spewing from rapid SNP mouths.
Completely agree. And the title of the article says it all. Condescending nonsense. The passive-aggressive stance of Nats like these is, to me, pretty offensive. You say 'I'm so wrong', but I'm afriad that is just the same as telling a women in the 1970s that she is so wrong to be offended by the poster of a bared naked page 3 model stuck on the workshop wall. You would cringe now if someone said that today - some scots will look back or are already cringing about some of the offensive bile spewing from rapid SNP mouths.
After the Broon warns of a black hole in Independence pension plans - here's another extract from the Yes campaign's latest publication -
Note the last paragraphs where they seem to be promising a lower retirement age than the rUK would have? Oh, and "as we'll be keeping sterling" - gotta love these tartan tossers and their Utopian dreams.
Note the last paragraphs where they seem to be promising a lower retirement age than the rUK would have? Oh, and "as we'll be keeping sterling" - gotta love these tartan tossers and their Utopian dreams.
Oakey said:
"A massive 91% of Scottish MPs at Westminster voted against the hated bedroom tax yet it was imposed on us"
That's a bit disingenuous, what percentage of the total vote did those MPs make up?
Someone needs to explain the difference between a tax and a reduced benefit payment to these tossers That's a bit disingenuous, what percentage of the total vote did those MPs make up?
Wombat3 said:
Someone needs to explain the difference between a tax and a reduced benefit payment to these tossers
The waters are just hugely muddy over the issue, I'm not sure anyone really has a clue what's going on.How much money would I have if I worked for 16 hours per week in a part time job and had 2 kids in my 3 bedroom council house vs 2 bedroom? Would I be better off working a full week? Am I in poverty? Am I better off because I can make £10k before paying income tax? Who knows.
Perhaps we could introduce some sort of universal credit benefits system to simplify everything
Welshbeef said:
Let's think about the actual extra costs
1. The part which stays in Scotland wil need to be externally audited
2. Unless there is bandwidth within existing roles you will need an operational head a Finance Manager HR Business partner a legal/commercial head, extra heads in payroll and central finance for the VAT and stat accounting.
3. There may be restructuring costs
4. If the offices within Scotland are not big enough or don't exist then you will needs these additional costs eating into margins
5. Forign currency exchange exposure - for both the rUK and Scotland for business to each other
6. Forign exchange costs to transfer funds between the two companies
7. Scottish bank accounts along with any associated costs of those accounts
8. Setting up a different legal company within the accounting and Management info systems (your going to need another head ongoing in IT plus the initial costs to make the set up- which could be easy and cheap but then again maybe not depending on how vanilla the IT systems are in businesses if they are not then individual reprogramming/development would be required.
Bound to be more but your talking millions even based on a relatively small sized company.
For some of course they might only have a tiny business operating and actually selling wthin Scotland - some companies might decide the effort is simply not worth it all that extra effort for pretty much negligible £ profits as such elect not to operate there.
You have ignore the really significant cost.1. The part which stays in Scotland wil need to be externally audited
2. Unless there is bandwidth within existing roles you will need an operational head a Finance Manager HR Business partner a legal/commercial head, extra heads in payroll and central finance for the VAT and stat accounting.
3. There may be restructuring costs
4. If the offices within Scotland are not big enough or don't exist then you will needs these additional costs eating into margins
5. Forign currency exchange exposure - for both the rUK and Scotland for business to each other
6. Forign exchange costs to transfer funds between the two companies
7. Scottish bank accounts along with any associated costs of those accounts
8. Setting up a different legal company within the accounting and Management info systems (your going to need another head ongoing in IT plus the initial costs to make the set up- which could be easy and cheap but then again maybe not depending on how vanilla the IT systems are in businesses if they are not then individual reprogramming/development would be required.
Bound to be more but your talking millions even based on a relatively small sized company.
For some of course they might only have a tiny business operating and actually selling wthin Scotland - some companies might decide the effort is simply not worth it all that extra effort for pretty much negligible £ profits as such elect not to operate there.
That is that every company which operates on both sides of the border would effectively need to divide itself into 2 so as to;
1. Report its profit in the rUk and subject to rUk corporate tax and in Scotland and subject to Scottish taxes.
2. To account for VAT on any good or service moving across the border.
I noticed the gap in the latest polls is narrowing. Seems saying No = Netgative and Yes = Land of milk and honey works well with voters.
You would have thought people would give it more thought but guess not. Also if it does go yes and there is not currecy union, orders for ship yards are cancelled, banks leave, the EU says no etc, then what happens then do we have Scotalnd balming the ruk and hatred being breed left an right or will people blame the folk who lied to them...hmm seems odd.
Still I suspect closer to the time there will be less chance to say its all bluff and scaremongering etc and more pressuer to say what plan B will be.
You would have thought people would give it more thought but guess not. Also if it does go yes and there is not currecy union, orders for ship yards are cancelled, banks leave, the EU says no etc, then what happens then do we have Scotalnd balming the ruk and hatred being breed left an right or will people blame the folk who lied to them...hmm seems odd.
Still I suspect closer to the time there will be less chance to say its all bluff and scaremongering etc and more pressuer to say what plan B will be.
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