What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language.
I'm not sure that's an accurate reflection.Around 1700 schools (of 15,000 or so who responded), said English was not the first language of the majority of their pupils. That is not the same as saying they do not speak English at school or that English is the second language at the school.
The Telegraph report below also suggests that 9 of the 10 schools with the highest proportion of pupils who do not speak English as a first language are rated as either 'Good' or 'Excellent' by Ofsted.
So is this really what you think it is?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10611050/Reve...
scenario8 said:
Genuinely, are there many schools where English is not the first language? Are these schools in extremely ghettoised areas of Bradford or somewhere?
I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
Yup, really...I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/education/...
This one is now doing better, but not one child has English as their mother tongue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283696/Pr...
[quote=WinstonWolf]
Heck, let's throw one issue onto the floor and see how it develops.
Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone?
[quote]
No you don't.
And even if you did (which you don't) bilingualism is a great advantage in life, even if not practical it does good things for young brain chemistry.
In FACT the British have an almost unique relationship to their and other languages, most children around the globe grow up with a much larger exposure to languages other than their mother tongue. Other languages in our schools SHOULD encouraged
Heck, let's throw one issue onto the floor and see how it develops.
Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone?
[quote]
No you don't.
And even if you did (which you don't) bilingualism is a great advantage in life, even if not practical it does good things for young brain chemistry.
In FACT the British have an almost unique relationship to their and other languages, most children around the globe grow up with a much larger exposure to languages other than their mother tongue. Other languages in our schools SHOULD encouraged
WinstonWolf said:
scenario8 said:
Genuinely, are there many schools where English is not the first language? Are these schools in extremely ghettoised areas of Bradford or somewhere?
I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
Yup, really...I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/education/...
This one is now doing better, but not one child has English as their mother tongue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283696/Pr...
I don't understand that article in the Peterborough Telegraph. It's been horribly edited so I don't understand the reference to English being a second language. I'd thought the article was a teaser page for a longer article but it appears not. It reads as though the editor doesn't enjoy English as their first language. maybe it really is that "bad" in Peterborough. Fortunately I cannot open the DM on this computer so I don't know what that article is about but I can get the idea from the url.
My post was asking whether there are schools where English is not the first language. For me there is a very big difference between a school that is not taught in English and one where a large number of children - even a majority or totality - for whom English is not their first language (at home). Perhaps for many that difference is of no consequence, but for me it is significant. I just wanted to ensure we were all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Are there many schools where English is not the first language?
FredClogs said:
WinstonWolf said:
Heck, let's throw one issue onto the floor and see how it develops.
Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone?
No you don't.Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone?
And even if you did (which you don't) bilingualism is a great advantage in life, even if not practical it does good things for young brain chemistry.
In FACT the British have an almost unique relationship to their and other languages, most children around the globe grow up with a much larger exposure to languages other than their mother tongue. Other languages in our schools SHOULD encouraged
Edited by WinstonWolf on Tuesday 22 April 17:50
scenario8 said:
WinstonWolf said:
scenario8 said:
Genuinely, are there many schools where English is not the first language? Are these schools in extremely ghettoised areas of Bradford or somewhere?
I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
Yup, really...I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/education/...
This one is now doing better, but not one child has English as their mother tongue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283696/Pr...
I don't understand that article in the Peterborough Telegraph. It's been horribly edited so I don't understand the reference to English being a second language. I'd thought the article was a teaser page for a longer article but it appears not. It reads as though the editor doesn't enjoy English as there first language. maybe it really is that "bad" in Peterborough. Fortunately I cannot open the DM on this computer so I don't know what that article is about but I can get the idea from the url.
My post was asking whether there are schools where English is not the first language. For me there is a very big difference between a school that is not taught in English and one where a large number of children - even a majority or totality - for whom English is not their first language (at home). Perhaps for many that difference is of no consequence, but for me it is significant. I just wanted to ensure we were all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Are there many schools where English is not the first language?
From the DM article...
The Article said:
A primary school with more than 400 pupils has become the first in the country where no children speak English as their mother tongue.
Punjabi Urdu, Portuguese, Czech, Polish, Russian and several African dialects are among the 20 foreign languages spoken at Gladstone Primary School.
<significant snip>
Some 358 of the 440 pupils were raised speaking Punjabi Urdu, according to Department for Education figures. The language is used in parts of Pakistan and India.
Another 23 are fluent in Dari, which is used in Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan. There are 15 Lithuanians and 11 Latvians, while other languages include Portuguese, Polish, Slovakian, Czech, Gujarati, Russian, German, Pashto, French, Arabic and four African dialects.
The school has gone from inadequate to good, but yes, schools do exist where not one pupil has English as their primary language.Punjabi Urdu, Portuguese, Czech, Polish, Russian and several African dialects are among the 20 foreign languages spoken at Gladstone Primary School.
<significant snip>
Some 358 of the 440 pupils were raised speaking Punjabi Urdu, according to Department for Education figures. The language is used in parts of Pakistan and India.
Another 23 are fluent in Dari, which is used in Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan. There are 15 Lithuanians and 11 Latvians, while other languages include Portuguese, Polish, Slovakian, Czech, Gujarati, Russian, German, Pashto, French, Arabic and four African dialects.
immigration is being used as cover for the flaws in the UK system that have been developing for many years due to woeful underinvestment in infrastructure. Without immigration schools would still be overcrowded, hospitals still running at near capacity, still not enough houses being built etc.
It is a nice easy way out for governments of all shades to say these are the faults of immigration.
It is a nice easy way out for governments of all shades to say these are the faults of immigration.
WinstonWolf said:
scenario8 said:
WinstonWolf said:
scenario8 said:
Genuinely, are there many schools where English is not the first language? Are these schools in extremely ghettoised areas of Bradford or somewhere?
I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
Yup, really...I know of many schools where a good number of children will have parents for whom English is not a first language (possibly there are examples where this number is the majority) - and these schools have genuine and real issues around that - but that's not the same as a school where English is not the first language. Is that what you meant or are there really schools where English is not the first language?
http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/education/...
This one is now doing better, but not one child has English as their mother tongue.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283696/Pr...
I don't understand that article in the Peterborough Telegraph. It's been horribly edited so I don't understand the reference to English being a second language. I'd thought the article was a teaser page for a longer article but it appears not. It reads as though the editor doesn't enjoy English as there first language. maybe it really is that "bad" in Peterborough. Fortunately I cannot open the DM on this computer so I don't know what that article is about but I can get the idea from the url.
My post was asking whether there are schools where English is not the first language. For me there is a very big difference between a school that is not taught in English and one where a large number of children - even a majority or totality - for whom English is not their first language (at home). Perhaps for many that difference is of no consequence, but for me it is significant. I just wanted to ensure we were all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Are there many schools where English is not the first language?
From the DM article...
The Article said:
A primary school with more than 400 pupils has become the first in the country where no children speak English as their mother tongue.
Punjabi Urdu, Portuguese, Czech, Polish, Russian and several African dialects are among the 20 foreign languages spoken at Gladstone Primary School.
<significant snip>
Some 358 of the 440 pupils were raised speaking Punjabi Urdu, according to Department for Education figures. The language is used in parts of Pakistan and India.
Another 23 are fluent in Dari, which is used in Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan. There are 15 Lithuanians and 11 Latvians, while other languages include Portuguese, Polish, Slovakian, Czech, Gujarati, Russian, German, Pashto, French, Arabic and four African dialects.
The school has gone from inadequate to good, but yes, schools do exist where not one pupil has English as their primary language.Punjabi Urdu, Portuguese, Czech, Polish, Russian and several African dialects are among the 20 foreign languages spoken at Gladstone Primary School.
<significant snip>
Some 358 of the 440 pupils were raised speaking Punjabi Urdu, according to Department for Education figures. The language is used in parts of Pakistan and India.
Another 23 are fluent in Dari, which is used in Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan. There are 15 Lithuanians and 11 Latvians, while other languages include Portuguese, Polish, Slovakian, Czech, Gujarati, Russian, German, Pashto, French, Arabic and four African dialects.
Even within these schools, is English not the first language? Do schools exist where the school's (first) language is not English? Are the lessons not taught predominantly/entirely in English. I think there is a significant distinction to be made and one that would have a very significant impact on my thoughts on the matter. Do you happen to know how many schools do not teach in English as the first language?
WinstonWolf said:
FredClogs said:
WinstonWolf said:
Heck, let's throw one issue onto the floor and see how it develops.
Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone?
No you don't.Education. I'm aware of many schools where English is now the second language. How can this benefit anyone?
And even if you did (which you don't) bilingualism is a great advantage in life, even if not practical it does good things for young brain chemistry.
In FACT the British have an almost unique relationship to their and other languages, most children around the globe grow up with a much larger exposure to languages other than their mother tongue. Other languages in our schools SHOULD encouraged
Edited by WinstonWolf on Tuesday 22 April 17:50
Zod said:
Foot, aim, fire!FredClogs said:
Perhaps if you'd been exposed a little more to some foreign language and influence as a kid you wouldn't be the hate filled bigot you are today? Just saying...
welshYou have nothing to add to this as you think all welsh are sheep shaggers
And additionally you have f
k all to add to any debate because you sit in the conner screaming RACIST like it gives you some moral authority and superiorityit doesn't
It merely makes you an annoyance
Oh would you care to use the i should see more of the world line against me?
As i wouldn't start comparing passports
FredClogs said:
Perhaps if you'd been exposed a little more to some foreign language and influence as a kid you wouldn't be the hate filled bigot you are today? Just saying...
Which one of us called all Welsh "sheep shaggers"?Now go away, I would quite like to have a conversation with some grown ups...
Guam said:
Thats funny, are we doing bogus voters in campaign ads now? Didnt labour do this a few years back?
mmm Have any of the other parties used actors in their campaign material,
good catch btw.
She is quite tasty mind so he wins on that issue I guess, how does that square with them being racist though?
Seems at odds with the usual mantra, bloody funny nonetheless
Predictable: it's OK, because others have done it before. mmm Have any of the other parties used actors in their campaign material,
good catch btw.She is quite tasty mind so he wins on that issue I guess, how does that square with them being racist though?
Seems at odds with the usual mantra, bloody funny nonetheless
In case you hadn't noticed, by the way, I'm not part of the "UKIP are racists" theme.
Guam said:
Thats funny, are we doing bogus voters in campaign ads now? Didnt labour do this a few years back?
mmm Have any of the other parties used actors in their campaign material, good catch btw.
She is quite tasty mind so he wins on that issue I guess, how does that square with them being racist though?
Seems at odds with the usual mantra, bloody funny nonetheless
Except that UKIP aren't like other parties, are they? They make a big play of their stance that they're different, they tell it like it is, and they're honest.mmm Have any of the other parties used actors in their campaign material,
good catch btw.She is quite tasty mind so he wins on that issue I guess, how does that square with them being racist though?
Seems at odds with the usual mantra, bloody funny nonetheless
Yeah, and I'm the Pope.
WinstonWolf said:
FredClogs said:
Perhaps if you'd been exposed a little more to some foreign language and influence as a kid you wouldn't be the hate filled bigot you are today? Just saying...
Which one of us called all Welsh "sheep shaggers"?Now go away, I would quite like to have a conversation with some grown ups...
By conversation you mean frothy mouthed ranting about the state of the nation with like minded fruitcakes.
Talking of the welsh how do you feel about the support of the welsh language? bet the tax payers money spent on that really feckin irks you doesn't it?
FredClogs said:
WinstonWolf said:
FredClogs said:
Perhaps if you'd been exposed a little more to some foreign language and influence as a kid you wouldn't be the hate filled bigot you are today? Just saying...
Which one of us called all Welsh "sheep shaggers"?Now go away, I would quite like to have a conversation with some grown ups...
By conversation you mean frothy mouthed ranting about the state of the nation with like minded fruitcakes.
Talking of the welsh how do you feel about the support of the welsh language? bet the tax payers money spent on that really feckin irks you doesn't it?
And by grown ups I obviously mean someone capable of holding a reasoned and interesting debate, so yes, that pretty much rules you out...
WinstonWolf said:
If you're going to attempt to derail a conversation...
It wasn't a derail. It was pointing out that you were misrepresenting reality.The schools are English speaking, and it is the majority of pupils attending around 1 in 9 of them who's first language is not English. That is not the same as saying 1 in 9 schools is not English speaking.
It is misinformation like this, sometimes done deliberately, that fuels parties such as UKIP.
10 Pence Short said:
WinstonWolf said:
If you're going to attempt to derail a conversation...
It wasn't a derail. It was pointing out that you were misrepresenting reality.The schools are English speaking, and it is the majority of pupils attending around 1 in 9 of them who's first language is not English. That is not the same as saying 1 in 9 schools is not English speaking.
It is misinformation like this, sometimes done deliberately, that fuels parties such as UKIP.
The Article said:
A primary school with more than 400 pupils has become the first in the country where no children speak English as their mother tongue.
That is not misrepresenting reality, it *is* reality.Another snippet...
"Peterborough City Council said more than 100 languages are spoken in the area. More than a third of pupils speak English as a second language, up from one in five in 2008."
Again, that's not misinformation, that is the council's own statistics...
I'm not fuelling anything, I'm merely pointing out how rapid the change is.
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