What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

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WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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10 Pence Short said:
Guam said:
Hang on, if UKIP are drawn to extremist bedfellows in the EU.

How does this make sense?

"Farage found himself embroiled in a row with the French Front National leader, Marine Le Pen after he called her party antisemitic. Last week Farage rejected a suggestion from Le Pen that Ukip could join a coalition with the FN in the European parliament, citing "prejudice and antisemitism" in her party – although he also said Le Pen had "some good qualities" and was "achieving remarkable things".

From the grauniad article linked to on the other thread.
Farage has a rival right-wing group in Europe that attracts more than £1m funding from the EU. Le Pen is threatening to steal members and funding from his group by the growth of her own.

It isn't that Le Pen threatens Farage's principles, it's that she threatens his wallet.
So, your main objection to UKIP is your own personal prejudices?

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Oh, and to add to that...

Now Farage has fallen out with the French National Front, he has instead chosen to cuddle up with Debout la Republique, who are led by Dupont-Aignan. Dupont-Aignan has just brought a nice chap into his party called Gilles Bourdouleix who in the past said "Hitler did not kill enough gypsies". He is also being prosecuted for similar remarks made last year.

Taking the above actions into account, and the fact that Farage has in the past been very complimentary about National Front, you have to question whether his recent comments are really about racism, or are in fact about something completely different (money).

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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WinstonWolf said:
So, your main objection to UKIP is your own personal prejudices?
Without some coherent explanation, I have no idea at all how you could come to that conclusion, having read what I wrote?


10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Guam said:
Hang on a mo, he is in a grouping which guys like you condemn them for belonging to (even though they are required to join a general group because of the rules), then when he refuses a specific formal alliance because he views them as Extremist, instead of being applauded for it, you make up still more crap to show why it is not praiseworthy. Disappointing when folk don't fit the paradigm eh?

How is that fence you are sitting on? rofl

Clearly the hatred is such that no matter what he does you will bin it, thank you for clarifying your true position.

BTW are there anymore of my dead pets you want to suggest were closet UKIP members?
I am saying that Farage is lying and that his true problem with Le Pen is her competing (for money and members) alliance of her own. This is evidenced by Farage now getting cosy with an equally racist party in its place (one that will join his alliance).

You may choose to take Farage at his word, despite the evidence against it. I tend to view the evidence and form an opinion based upon what Farage does rather than what he says, as these are very often two different things.

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Guam said:
I take no one at their word (least of all you).
Why "least of all" me? Do I have a history of telling lies?

Was it me who said;

- he hates racists, then joins with far right, racist parties in France and Italy?
- he hates EU financial waste, then snuffles in the trough for a massive optional pension funded by the tax payer, all his full allowances and maxes the expenses
- no family member employed in UKIP, no exceptions, then employs his missus and mistress under public funding
- is a signatory to a 400 page manifesto which he then describes later as a load of "rubbish"
- he stands up for women but votes against equal pay
- that he will influence the EU from within but hardly turns up to any votes

And you're questioning my sincerity?

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Guam said:
Comments like Dog named Farage ring any bells (one of several over these threads)?
That wasn't a lie.

If you don't like having darts thrown at you, stop waking around with such a bloody big target on your back.

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Guam said:
Weasel all you like, it was unrelated to UKIP (the discussion was about Clarkson) it was typical of your kind of narrative. It was either trolling or an attempt at a mean spirited personal attack on an unrelated thread.
It might have been in (unintentionally, how would I know your pooch is dead?) poor taste towards you, but it wasn't a lie, which by your earlier inference, is why you wouldn't trust anything that I say. Yet again you fail to address a point.

I can see why you warm to Farage, as he and you share similar traits in evading facts and avoiding at all costs objective examinations.

Farage is posh market trader hawking magic beans to people who want to believe there's a pot of gold at the top of the beanstalk. All the while, he is getting rich, whilst the suckers who bought the beans sit watching their window boxes, thinking they must be doing something wrong, as the stalk isn't appearing.


WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
10 Pence Short said:
Guam said:
Weasel all you like, it was unrelated to UKIP (the discussion was about Clarkson) it was typical of your kind of narrative. It was either trolling or an attempt at a mean spirited personal attack on an unrelated thread.
It might have been in (unintentionally, how would I know your pooch is dead?) poor taste towards you, but it wasn't a lie, which by your earlier inference, is why you wouldn't trust anything that I say. Yet again you fail to address a point.

I can see why you warm to Farage, as he and you share similar traits in evading facts and avoiding at all costs objective examinations.

Farage is posh market trader hawking magic beans to people who want to believe there's a pot of gold at the top of the beanstalk. All the while, he is getting rich, whilst the suckers who bought the beans sit watching their window boxes, thinking they must be doing something wrong, as the stalk isn't appearing.
No more boom and bust...

Mr Snap

2,364 posts

156 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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WinstonWolf said:
I'm curious, what did you actually mean by your comment about the DNA of people born in the fens then? Are you suggesting that all people born there have a problem of some sort?

That's definitely the mindset of a racist...
Yep, it's that tired old incest gag.

Incredible how you can sniff "the mindset of a racist"* from a mile off when the boot is on the other foot, isn't it?

Are you all offended on behalf of the fens? Where's that famous Winston sense of humour? You know, the jolly japer who says (in a completely unracist way) "I was planning to ride a slope this evening, I may have to rethink that now…" over on the Clarkson thread?

  • I love the "mindset" bit. You can't possibly accuse me of racism for making cracks about the fens (not unless you can demonstrate that people from the fens represent a unique race), so you accuse me of having the "mindset of a racist" instead.
It's such a handy ploy. I think I'll have a go: You have the mindset of a sad little, angry, bloke.

(I do apologise if I've offended anyone who's sad, angry, little or a bloke: It's my mindset, you see, I just can't help myself).









WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Mr Snap said:
WinstonWolf said:
I'm curious, what did you actually mean by your comment about the DNA of people born in the fens then? Are you suggesting that all people born there have a problem of some sort?

That's definitely the mindset of a racist...
Yep, it's that tired old incest gag.

Incredible how you can sniff "the mindset of a racist"* from a mile off when the boot is on the other foot, isn't it?

Are you all offended on behalf of the fens? Where's that famous Winston sense of humour? You know, the jolly japer who says (in a completely unracist way) "I was planning to ride a slope this evening, I may have to rethink that now…" over on the Clarkson thread?

  • I love the "mindset" bit. You can't possibly accuse me of racism for making cracks about the fens (not unless you can demonstrate that people from the fens represent a unique race), so you accuse me of having the "mindset of a racist" instead.
It's such a handy ploy. I think I'll have a go: You have the mindset of a sad little, angry, bloke.

(I do apologise if I've offended anyone who's sad, angry, little or a bloke: It's my mindset, you see, I just can't help myself).







Oh bless, you're actually following me around. That's kinda cute x


Justayellowbadge

37,057 posts

241 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Justayellowbadge said:
Is there something in the water?

Give it a rest chaps.
I apologise for the cryptic nature of this post.

It's convoluted ambiguity has lead to you all still behaving like children, which is clearly my fault, so I am sorry for that.

Let me rephrase.

Pack it in, or the thread will get locked and individuals, regardless of who started it, or who said what or who pulled who's hair and ran away, will find themselves unable to 'contribute' for a period ranging from some to all.

Grow up, or sod off, in other words.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Guam, have you looked at all the posters yet?

I give you credit for some intellectual honesty and courage as you have expressed reservations about the two that you saw yesterday. No other UKIP supporter in the thread has responded to the invitation to look at the posters and tell us whether or not they they find them embarrassing. That may be somewhat telling in itself.

It's sad to see a bloke like you who once held (small l) liberal views being seduced by the Siren call of the charlatans and xenophobes. The zeal of the convert may know no bounds (look at Woodrow Wyatt and Paul Johnson for example of journeys from left to far right), but it's a shame to abandon reason and embrace fear.



Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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First chance to look in here today and I have to say that the whole debate about schools and languages has me confused.

We've been told over the last few weeks that UKIP objects to unlimited immigration from other EU Member States, but welcomes immigration from Commonwealth countries. Why therefore is there discussion in this thread of schools in which pupils speak Punjabi and Urdu as a first language?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Simple answer: "I don't know what it is, but I'm agin it".

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Breadvan72 said:
Simple answer: "I don't know what it is, but I'm agin it".
And that's precisely why you can't have a sensible debate on the subject...

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Longer answer to Zod's question: UKIP will object to whatever they think that a poorly informed public will be worried about. The identity of the boogeyman used to be a scary person from Pakistan who wants to make us all eat at Allan's Snackbar; but now it's a scary person from Poland who wants your job.

Guam, even allowing for the dreadful performance of the main parties, can you really think that such a dreadfully transparent faker as Farage and his gang of opportunists and haters can offer any sort of viable alternative? Why not become active within the mainstream party that is closest to your overall world view and agitate for it to be better and for politics to be better?

We forget that there are still some honourable, able, and public spirited people on back and maybe even front benches in the main parties, because we are rightly furious at the dreadful behaviour of many of the MPs and Ministers and Shadow Ministers and the crappy policies adopted by all recent Governments. Their failure does not make Farage the answer.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
Breadvan72 said:
Simple answer: "I don't know what it is, but I'm agin it".
And that's precisely why you can't have a sensible debate on the subject...
Why is the subject being debated at all? Some of you seem very confused about what your beloved protest movement actually stands for.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Zod, the stout English patriots seem a bit nervous discussing why they are bothered by cultural differences and lack of linguistic, ahem, purity. Of course we need a lingua franca that we use in business, government, and daily life, and that happens to be English, and of course children growing up here should be able to use English, and adults who live here ought to make an effort and learn English too. Most Europeans that you bump into in daily street life do, some older Asians do not; but middle aged and elderly Asian women not speaking English is hardly a huge societal problem (even though we probably all agree that a culture that keeps them veiled and ignorant is a bad culture, to be combatted though education). Who cares what language people speak at home or when hanging out with each other in a cafe? Parts of London are very Francophone these days. Who cares?

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
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Breadvan72 said:
Zod, the stout English patriots seem a bit nervous discussing why they are bothered by cultural differences and lack of linguistic, ahem, purity. Of course we need a lingua franca that we use in business and daily life, and that happens to be English, and of course children should be able to use English, and adults who live here ought to make an effort and learn English too. Most Europeans that you bump into in daily street life do, some older Asians do not; but middle aged and elderly Asian women not speaking English is hardly a huge societal problem (even though we probably all agree that a culture that keeps them veiled and ignorant is a bad culture, to be combatted though education). Who cares what language people speak at home or when hanging out with each other in a cafe? Parts of London are very Francophone these days. Who cares?
Neither you, nor I, but I think some people here do care, even though they are not sure why.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 23rd April 2014
quotequote all
Or they lack either the honesty to themselves or the courage among others to say why.
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