What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.
Discussion
brenflys777 said:
Fair point about this thread. BV started it with an inaccurate story and it has provoked debate.
On the thread I quoted from, I would stand by the opinion that throwing insults or inaccurate associations is an attempt to stifle debate. It seems to happen a lot when UKIP are mentioned.
I would agree with you, what I find strange is what is the point? If its to drum up supporters for UKIP I think its working.On the thread I quoted from, I would stand by the opinion that throwing insults or inaccurate associations is an attempt to stifle debate. It seems to happen a lot when UKIP are mentioned.
zygalski said:
Breadvan72 said:
Your mistake is to assume that I was attempting to stifle debate. You appear to have the typical approach to free expression adopted by the PH rightists. If someone says something that you don't like, that's "attempting to stifle debate". If someone from the loyalist crew says "Shut up, tosser liberal" or similar, that's an example of excellent debating skills.
I felt the same when Turbobloke repeatedly posted long lists of individual scientists who spoke out against climate change & the IPCC. Nothing but support for him.I then copy/pasted lists of organisations that support the mainstream scientific views on the matter & was told by several forumites with many thousands of posts between them that I was trolling & a nuisance.
There are some incredibly self-righteous types on here & an awful lot of cock-holding goes on.
and you wonder why people don't take you seriously
Countdown said:
What was inaccurate about the story?
AJS- said:
Check the originally linked article
update said:
UPDATE: Doubts have now been cast about the veracity of the story, with the secretary of the Modena Lega Nord saying he had not heard of the men involved. The Malta Independent and the Italian news sites have now taken down their versions of the story.
Never mind. UKIP are discredited by an associated party being mistakenly associated with a failed political stunt. Not that it's a smear or anything...Breadvan72 said:
How is saying something that upsets your delicate sensibilities stifling debate? If you don't like it, you are free to comment on it. Oh, you have. Not much debate stifling going on there then. As for badd spoleng, I am as prone to typos as the next person. If I spot them, I correct them. If I don't, I don't. Typing "would of" instead of "would have" is not a spelling mistake. It's a sign of someone who can't be bothered to attempt to communicate in standard English.
You are also missing the point about bigots in UKIP. There are bigots in and supporting UKIP, and to suggest otherwise would be fanciful. It does not follow from this that everyone who supports UKIP is a bigot; but choosing to associate with bigots is, as the term suggests, a matter of choice, not accident. Supporters who are not bigots might also wish to ask themselves why the party that they love attracts so many bigots; but they (the non bigots) seem unwilling to do so.
i am pretty sure the tories could rival ukip for bigoted members . one good reason to reduce immigration ,the country is physically too small .there are enough people on the roads spoiling my motoring/riding pleasure as it is ,without adding to them. You are also missing the point about bigots in UKIP. There are bigots in and supporting UKIP, and to suggest otherwise would be fanciful. It does not follow from this that everyone who supports UKIP is a bigot; but choosing to associate with bigots is, as the term suggests, a matter of choice, not accident. Supporters who are not bigots might also wish to ask themselves why the party that they love attracts so many bigots; but they (the non bigots) seem unwilling to do so.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 26th April 17:53
Edited by wc98 on Saturday 26th April 22:38
William Henwood, stand up as today's bigoted UKIP candidate.
Why hasn't UKIP central immediately rejected his comments fully and expelled him? How long does it take to say that someone cannot represent you - he's still standing as a UKIP candidate. They've known about this since early this afternoon, but nothing from UKIP Central other than a mealy-mouthed "we're non-racist, non-sectarian” statement and that “any comments made by members that fail to uphold these values will be duly investigated and acted upon”.
Oh, but it's just an isolated instance. Silly me, I forgot. Before anyone says that it's all the fault of that pesky media, after UKIP jumped themselves into the spotlight, what on earth did they expect?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/1079...
Why hasn't UKIP central immediately rejected his comments fully and expelled him? How long does it take to say that someone cannot represent you - he's still standing as a UKIP candidate. They've known about this since early this afternoon, but nothing from UKIP Central other than a mealy-mouthed "we're non-racist, non-sectarian” statement and that “any comments made by members that fail to uphold these values will be duly investigated and acted upon”.
Oh, but it's just an isolated instance. Silly me, I forgot. Before anyone says that it's all the fault of that pesky media, after UKIP jumped themselves into the spotlight, what on earth did they expect?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/1079...
mrpurple said:
Nothing like a good bit of UKIP bashing to cheer everyone up.
So all the other parties are full of saints then?
Why expend effort bashing UKIP, when there is a constant supply of fully paid up 'kippers who seem hell-bent on making UKIP as a whole a laughing-stock?So all the other parties are full of saints then?
In the past week we've had the election broadcast debacle, the poster fiasco and now this nasty little Herbert breaking cover with his opinions about Lenny Henry.
Farage's promise to rid the party of this sort of pond-scum was a hollow proposition to start with, and he has clearly singularly failed to deliver on his promise.
Expect much, much more of the same. Kipper quality control appears to be non-existent.
As well as the latest list of racist and homophobic tweets and quips from UKIP candidates who are of course in no way representative of anything to do with UKIP, the Observer today quotes a UKIP activist listing her concerns about Polish people in her area. Crowded schools* and bad parking are among them, but one of the concerns is "the sound of Polish being spoken in the street". Oh no, not xenophobic at all, then. She also feels miffed because the Polish supermarket has big lorries delivering stuff to it. Yeah, that would never happen at a proper local supermarket for local people, would it?
*No explanation of why this is because of Poles and not because of crappy education policies and/or general demographics.
*No explanation of why this is because of Poles and not because of crappy education policies and/or general demographics.
zygalski said:
Breadvan72 said:
Your mistake is to assume that I was attempting to stifle debate. You appear to have the typical approach to free expression adopted by the PH rightists. If someone says something that you don't like, that's "attempting to stifle debate". If someone from the loyalist crew says "Shut up, tosser liberal" or similar, that's an example of excellent debating skills.
I felt the same when Turbobloke repeatedly posted long lists of individual scientists who spoke out against climate change & the IPCC. Nothing but support for him.I then copy/pasted lists of organisations that support the mainstream scientific views on the matter & was told by several forumites with many thousands of posts between them that I was trolling & a nuisance.
There are some incredibly self-righteous types on here & an awful lot of cock-holding goes on.
I'll just repeat this as I'm interested in comment from the pro-crowd.
Bill said:
From the Guardian:
"Not at all. Two reasons, really. I think we don't know the true figures yet. And there's also the quality debate. People hate talking about this, but if you look at the Met crime figures for Romanian arrests, there have been 28,000 in London in the last five years. Is there a problem? Yeah. There is a problem." Is he saying there is a culture of criminality among Romanians? "Bound to be. You have to go and see it to understand it. I've visited camps in Romania and Bulgaria, I've got a pretty good understanding." Should British people be wary of Romanian families moving into their street? "Well, of course, yeah."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/ni...
I'm fascinated to know whether he thinks all Romanians live in camps, or just the criminals."Not at all. Two reasons, really. I think we don't know the true figures yet. And there's also the quality debate. People hate talking about this, but if you look at the Met crime figures for Romanian arrests, there have been 28,000 in London in the last five years. Is there a problem? Yeah. There is a problem." Is he saying there is a culture of criminality among Romanians? "Bound to be. You have to go and see it to understand it. I've visited camps in Romania and Bulgaria, I've got a pretty good understanding." Should British people be wary of Romanian families moving into their street? "Well, of course, yeah."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/ni...
Breadvan72 said:
As well as the latest list of racist and homophobic tweets and quips from UKIP candidates who are of course in no way representative of anything to do with UKIP, the Observer today quotes a UKIP activist listing her concerns about Polish people in her area. Crowded schools* and bad parking are among them, but one of the concerns is "the sound of Polish being spoken in the street". Oh no, not xenophobic at all, then. She also feels miffed because the Polish supermarket has big lorries delivering stuff to it. Yeah, that would never happen at a proper local supermarket for local people, would it?
*No explanation of why this is because of Poles and not because of crappy education policies and/or general demographics.
Just getting a quick 'cos racist innit' in before breakfast?*No explanation of why this is because of Poles and not because of crappy education policies and/or general demographics.
Breadvan72 said:
I don't even bother looking at those threads anymore, zygalski. There are only so many "I don't care what all those scientists say; the Earth really is flat" posts that you can read before being overwhelmed by meh.
Am I mistaken, or are many of the vociferous anti-AGW posters also vociferous pro-UKIP posters? There also seems to be a red mist that descends when the word environment is raised.
ps I know as a damn foreigner that UKIP is none of my business (unless they bring back the old commonwealth trading bloc), but is free entertainment.
AW111 said:
Am I mistaken, or are many of the vociferous anti-AGW posters also vociferous pro-UKIP posters?
I noticed that as well.FWIW I think both issues (MMGW and UKIP) have reasonable arguments "For" and "Against" - unfortunately the "We're absolutely right and if you disagree then you're all a bunch of BBC supporting lefty groupthink useful idiots" Brigade tend to weaken their case by not accepting this.
Guam said:
AW111 said:
Breadvan72 said:
I don't even bother looking at those threads anymore, zygalski. There are only so many "I don't care what all those scientists say; the Earth really is flat" posts that you can read before being overwhelmed by meh.
Am I mistaken, or are many of the vociferous anti-AGW posters also vociferous pro-UKIP posters? There also seems to be a red mist that descends when the word environment is raised.
ps I know as a damn foreigner that UKIP is none of my business (unless they bring back the old commonwealth trading bloc), but is free entertainment.
H L Mencken said:
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
In the climate threads if we don't believe the politiians then we'll all melt and bunnies won't be fluffy any more, in these threads if we don't believe the mainstream politicians are the best option then we'll go to hell for being racists - when in fact none of us are, and have shown no signs of being so. Including those of us who only post occasionally in UKIP bashing threads when the rhetoric gets worse than previously thought.Guilt by association is used to damn disbelievers in the racist nature of UKIP. This thread's title illustrates the same smear tactic by its very existence, even after the story was pulled from whence it came due to fatal doubts about its authenticity.
Then there's the small matter of UKIP being protrayed implicitly as non-mainstream, when it's been mullering the hapless LibDims for quite some time in mainstream Party polls not just EU election polls.
The vociferious minority of a loyal liberal-left persuasion who don't get to see much if any material in The Guardian or on the BBC which is commonplace on PH are shocked to realise that unlike CIF, having a rational viewpoint supported by credible evidence doesn't result in posts being deleted and access denied. As a result, smears and insults are used in an attempt to deter such posts and shut down debate, not in terms of a discussion happening but in terms of the nature of contributions to it.
This from somebody who has not voted UKIP as yet but doesn't find CMD's conservatism worth a vote who also reserves the right to take a position based on credible data and evidence rather than anything politicians or vested interests tell us to believe.
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