What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

[rs1952]

4v6 said:

Just done Political Compass, first time I've done that and puts me almost smack bang on mark with nelson mandela....

So you're a terrorist then?



in case anybody flies into a froth, just my little jest brought forward from the Nelson Mandela thread

[xjsdriver]

Derek Smith said:

PRTVR said:

What is interesting is the far right is expanding all over Europe as a direct consequence of the EU and their liberal policy's, making fun of them does not address the reasons for the worrying rise.

You think racism needs EU policies to thrive?

Not sure that is entirely correct.

I agree with you, though. We should not make fun of them, nor laugh at them. These are seriously dangerous people. They should be exposed as such.

+1 .....and UKIP are happy to be politically associated with this lot then? What about them coming over all nicey-nicey non-racist all of a sudden....is that out of the window now, or what?

[AshVX220]

Breadvan72 said:

AshVX220 said:

Indeed.

I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.

What gravy train might that be, pray? I didn't know that you were my accountant. Can you let me know how you are getting on with those schedules? Cheers.

Surely you spend loads of time upholding all those lovely EU laws don't you? Without the EU there'd be less laws to uphold....

Schedules aren't looking good mate, I might need more money to make 'em tie up.......

[HonestIago]

Breadvan72 said:

BTW, assumptions about what people might think can be erroneous. If there is an in/out referendum, I will start the campaign as a floating voter, and will listen to the number crunching and the other arguments. I favour a United States of Europe, but only if it is democratic, and that is not on offer. I deplore much of what the EU has come to be, but I want to see the numbers crunched in detail, as ultimately the question may be what is in the long term economic interest of the UK. If putting up with all the BS is a price that is worth paying for the gains, then I will reluctantly put up with the BS.

Migration within the EU is a transient issue, I think, that will settle down in time, as the free movement economy matures I think that we should have waited another twenty years before enlarging to the east, but it's done now, and the predictions of swamping aren't coming true.

You know this how? Can you see how everyone else lives as you gaze wistfully from your ivory tower??

As for smears, a smear is not a smear if it's true. UKIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups. It is also shameful, BTW, that the UK is allied with the Saudis.

Are you really that simple? Something might have a grain of truth but that doesn't mean it should be blown out of all proportion and used to try and ruin reputations.

I don't think that Farage is a racist. Some of his followers are, some aren't. Farage's main vice is that he's an hypocrite - a systematically dishonest (second) career politician masquerading as a bloke in the pub.

This supposed hypocrisy pales into insignificance when compared to the hypocrisy of the multimillionaire socialists that currently run our country.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Tuesday 8th April 11:28

[zygalski]

10 Pence Short said:

My belief is that the right wing prospers when people's pockets and quality of life are most squeezed.

If you look at the countries where the far right have most prominence, it's no surprise to see it's the ones with least spare cash.

With our improving outlook, this is one reason I believe UKIP are likely to be less and less relevant to the middle ground voters, as their bank balances restore and their viewpoints mellow.

This is exactly what will happen.
UKIP support has already peaked. Once the economic boom cycle starts again it will quickly wither away......

[HonestIago]

zygalski said:

This is exactly what will happen.
UKIP support has already peaked. Once the economic boom cycle starts again it will quickly wither away......

You hope. That'll be the "boom cycle" based upon more house price inflation and cheap credit then. The LibLabCon merry-go-round of seemingly infinite borrowing can't go on forever you know. The longer the real pain is delayed the worse it will ultimately be.

[rs1952]

AshVX220 said:

Breadvan72 said:

AshVX220 said:

Indeed.

I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.

What gravy train might that be, pray? I didn't know that you were my accountant. Can you let me know how you are getting on with those schedules? Cheers.

Surely you spend loads of time upholding all those lovely EU laws don't you? Without the EU there'd be less laws to uphold....

Schedules aren't looking good mate, I might need more money to make 'em tie up.......

One of the oldest, and poorest, arguments in the book runs thus:

"You don't agree with me, therefore you must be in the pay of somebody whose views you support"

Shows a lack of debating skills IMHO

[zygalski]

HonestIago said:

You hope. That'll be the "boom cycle" based upon more house price inflation and cheap credit then. The LibLabCon merry-go-round of seemingly infinite borrowing can't go on forever you know. The longer the real pain is delayed the worse it will ultimately be.

Typically parochial view.
Before 1992 & the Maastricht treaty every time the Bundesbank rasied or lowered their interest rates we followed suit. There's also this thing called the Global Economy, so I'm told.

[HonestIago]

zygalski said:

HonestIago said:

You hope. That'll be the "boom cycle" based upon more house price inflation and cheap credit then. The LibLabCon merry-go-round of seemingly infinite borrowing can't go on forever you know. The longer the real pain is delayed the worse it will ultimately be.

Typically parochial view.
Before 1992 & the Maastricht treaty every time the Bundesbank rasied or lowered their interest rates we followed suit. There's also this thing called the Global Economy, so I'm told.

Oh yes...how very parochial to suggest the National Debt will have to be addressed

[AshVX220]

rs1952 said:

One of the oldest, and poorest, arguments in the book runs thus:

"You don't agree with me, therefore you must be in the pay of somebody whose views you support"

Shows a lack of debating skills IMHO

I just wrote loads of stuff and it all went wrong (the website had a tech issue).

So, in short, I've given up debating on these threads, as those that debate against UKIP are too quick with the slur, smears and calls of "Racist UKIP" (see the whole purpose of this thread).

For me, the EU question is a small part of why I like UKIP. I've said in the other threads many times, for me I like their views of small government, self responsability and common sense.

I can't be arsed to write all the stuff I did before it failed to post, but basically I was just saying that as I tire of debating against the same old slurs, I was merely trying to bring my own little bit of humour to the thread.

[otolith]

HonestIago said:

Oh yes...how very parochial to suggest the National Debt will have to be addressed

Don't worry about our debt, if "ever closer union" is taken to its logical conclusion it is inevitable that national debts will be federalised. Worry about helping to pay off the PIIGs.

[anonymous-user]

AshVX220 said:

Breadvan72 said:

AshVX220 said:

Indeed.

I wonder if BV's concerned that if we leave the EU or at least show it for what it is, that his own particular gravy-train might come to a grinding halt.

What gravy train might that be, pray? I didn't know that you were my accountant. Can you let me know how you are getting on with those schedules? Cheers.

Surely you spend loads of time upholding all those lovely EU laws don't you? Without the EU there'd be less laws to uphold....

Schedules aren't looking good mate, I might need more money to make 'em tie up.......

That's fewer laws, please! (less jam, fewer spoons). One of Farage's biggest fibs (and he follows the well known maxim that the trick to lying is to keep on repeating the same fib over and over again) is the one about 70% or thereabouts of law that affects the UK being driven by the EU. It is hard to obtain a meaningful measurement of the volume of legislation that is directed or influenced by the EU, and not all laws are the same size or weight, but reputable studies by academic researchers put the figure at somewhere around 15 to 18% (so both Clegg and Farage were wrong on this).

My own anecdotal experience as a knockabout business and government law generalist is that a Europoint crops up in about one case in seven, but, as I said, "how much from where?" is a somewhat meaningless measure, as content matters more than volume. My experience as a working lawyer has been that most of the nonsense (there is far, far too much legislation) continues to be home grown, but it is supplemented by a fair amount of Eurostuff, some of which is nonsense, and some of which isn't. Myths abound. For example, the UK does not routinely gold plate EU law, but is widely supposed to do so. The UK quite often gets done for not implementing EU law, but is widely supposed to follow it slavishly. The whole area is a forest of myth and made uppery.

If the UK were to leave the EU, I would still be able to work, subject to the usual exigencies of the economy, as most of what I do is in one way or another dependent on business activity. I won't be voting in a referendum on the basis of personal gain. I will be trying to figure out, if I can, what seems best for the country that my daughter and her friends will be living in for the next several decades, and voting accordingly. The curious PH notion that a person who has different views from your own must only hold those views for reasons of personal advantage/selfishness is, well, curious.

[otolith]

Breadvan72 said:

The curious PH notion that a person who has different views from your own must only hold those views for reasons of personal advantage/selfishness is, well, curious.

That attitude is not exclusive to PH, most of my left-leaning friends are of the opinion that every position the Conservative Party holds is in some way personally mercenary for the party leadership. The "Ah, well, Cameron is friends with an investor who is involved with a hedge fund which has a holding in a company which stands to benefit from that policy position, and that's why he's against nationalising corner shops" gambit.

[anonymous-user]

rs1952 said:

One of the oldest, and poorest, arguments in the book runs thus:

"You don't agree with me, therefore you must be in the pay of somebody whose views you support"

Shows a lack of debating skills IMHO

Yep. Over in the McCann thread, I am told that I am on a 24/7 retainer from the evil parents. Ker-ching, but the money seems not to be reaching all my evil Swiss bank accounts for some reason. I don't bother going to the climate change threads, as there is only so much wibble that it's possible to take, but I gather that the thesis there is that thousands of serious scientists worldwide have been bribed to abandon basic scientific ethics by some evil green lobby. I am not sure if the "you must work for Malaysian Airlines/Oscar Pistorious/Dr Evil" stuff has started on those threads yet, but I suppose that it may soon enough.

[anonymous-user]

HonestIago said:

....

Breadvan72 said:

As for smears, a smear is not a smear if it's true. KIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups. It is also shameful, BTW, that the UK is allied with the Saudis.

Are you really that simple? Something might have a grain of truth but that doesn't mean it should be blown out of all proportion and used to try and ruin reputations.

...

A grain of truth? Which part of the statement "UKIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups" is not true? Er, no part. Blown up out of proportion? What's to blow up? The statement itself says all that it needs to say. Here it is again: UKIP is allied with Neo-Fascist political groups. If that ruins reputations, well, so it should! I suggest that perhaps you just don't want to look in the mirror, because if you do you might see who is standing next to you.

[IanA2]

I lived in Padua in the early 80's and had the "pleasure" of bumping into a few of the Liga Veneto (forerunners of this Nord mob) and believe me they are not nice people. How people in this country can forget what the fascists and the nazis did in Europe astounds me. Go vist Dachau.

We are a tiny island that happens, courtesy of USSR & USA to have a vote at the big table. We need to be part of a bigger picture. Seems to me that that is either with Europe or USA. Personally I prefer Europe for historical/cultural reasons. If we could have a democratic USE I'd vote for it tomorrow. As long as we don't do the stupid thing and leave the EU, I believe it will, eventually come, but I don't know when. Meantime watch out for the bad guys.

[xjsdriver]

HonestIago said:

You hope. That'll be the "boom cycle" based upon more house price inflation and cheap credit then. The LibLabCon merry-go-round of seemingly infinite borrowing can't go on forever you know. The longer the real pain is delayed the worse it will ultimately be.

We had much higher rates of borrowing in the 50's and 60's.....yet this didn't seem to stifle the rates of growth we experienced at the time. Many countries have a certain amount of debt and yet, are able to sustain growth quarter after quarter. There aren't many countries in the world that are able to exist entirely debt free.
Another way at looking at our National Debt would be like comparing those who can afford to buy their homes outright without recourse to a mortgage to those (most of us) who require mortgages to do so. We should be able to use past spending as guide as to what is affordable.

[mrpurple]

Breadvan72 said:

One of Farage's biggest fibs (and he follows the well known maxim that the trick to lying is to keep on repeating the same fib over and over again) is the one about 70% or thereabouts of law that affects the UK being driven by the EU. It is hard to obtain a meaningful measurement of the volume of legislation that is directed or influenced by the EU, and not all laws are the same size or weight, but reputable studies by academic researchers put the figure at somewhere around 15 to 18% (so both Clegg and Farage were wrong on this).

I am disgusted.... this video proves what a lying barsteward NF really is.......70% my arse.... it is at least 75 - 80% according to Viviane Reding

http://www.ukip.org/the_truth_is_out_at_least_75_o...

[anonymous-user]

HonestIago said:

Breadvan72 said:

...

Migration within the EU is a transient issue, I think, that will settle down in time, as the free movement economy matures I think that we should have waited another twenty years before enlarging to the east, but it's done now, and the predictions of swamping aren't coming true.

You know this how? Can you see how everyone else lives as you gaze wistfully from your ivory tower??

Is that the inner London ivory tower, or the Oxfordshire village ivory tower, or the Manchester, Leeds, Bristol and Birmingham ivory towers (some places that I live, have lived in, and work in regularly)? Do you have some all seeing eye, a Palantir or something, to tell you how "everyone else" lives? Has your work recently taken you inside a prison, a failing hospital, a non failing school, a (no longer operational) crack den, a Town Hall, an MoD base, a board room, a shipyard, and other assorted places? Mine has. I didn't see a lot of ivory in any of those places, but perhaps I wasn't looking hard enough.

As for swamping, look up the figures, and look about you in daily life. Some people from EU countries have come here. Some haven't. Some will stay, some will go back home. London is full of French people (it would be one of France's largest Cities if it was in France) but they don't make many headlines.

[Rovinghawk]

Breadvan72 said:

In Texas, and other traditionally conservative parts of the US there is a lot of poverty and the associated ignorance and fear. The oil money does not spread as widely or fairly as it should. One of the ironies of the US is that, broadly speaking, the pro Federal Democrat States raise the Federal revenues, and the anti Federal Republican States spend them.

Interesting- do you have a source I can read?