What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.

[powerstroke]

I'm amazed how thick clever people are !!!or is it do as I say not as I do???
Or perhaps trying to save their gravy train!!!

[DonkeyApple]

Why is it that if you question what UKIP is doing or if you voice concern in regards to elements of its membership you are left wing?

Surely if someone is going around calling people 'lefties' it is because they see themselves as right wing and when they are accusing right wingers of being 'lefties' then they are extreme right wing?

Is this 'lefty' thing meant to be a slur or a pronouncement?

Also, does UKIP stand for Britain leaving the EU or the destruction of the EU? It doesn't seem that clear. If the latter then what right have we to dictate to other countries and if the former then why do they need to fraternise with groups that should be beneath them?

The issue with UKIP is that there are a lot of sensible questions to ask but they seem to get shut down by supporters in some kind of defensive action.

I'd be interested to know for example where UKIP stands in an independent Scotland, both parties in question are arguing for independence but actually crossing in opposing directions.

I'd also like to know what UKIP's policies are on immigrants as well as immigration. Do they propose a two tier system for example?

But keeping relevant to this thread, why do UKIP consort with far right parties? What is the reason or purpose or even the need?

[anonymous-user]

DonkeyApple, good points. (Oh noes! We agree with one another about something, so that must mean that we are old school chums or something.) I have been amused in the course of this thread to be accused of being both a Tory and a LibDem by the shrill and defensive acolytes of the Purple Flame that guard the sacred person of The Dear Leader and the Holy Wisdom of Bloke in Pub that he purveys. The level of histrionic shrieking by the offended righteous goes up to 11. I doubt that you will get a straight answer to your question of why these honest and plain dealing types in good old tweed coats choose to stand next to some people who want to segregate public transport.

PS: Guam, who is perhaps the most intellectually honest and semi rational 'kipper on here, makes a good stab, but the answer is unconvincing, as there is no need for UKIP to do anything other than stand alone in the Europarl, which it affects to disdain in any event (while pocketing the pay cheques and expenses).

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 15th April 09:48

[10 Pence Short]

Guam said:

10 Pence Short said:

Breadvan72 said:

10PS, put the crumpets on and warm the socks! The team bus from Porridge Court is coming up the drive.

Did you mention porridge? I've got an interesting story about that...

Yes please, I wasn't bored enough with your "I was banged up for being a tt but now I wear it like a badge of honour" humorous anecdotes" the first 100 times you told us.

You see, that's the difference.

[Mr_B]

Breadvan72 said:

DonkeyApple, good points. (Oh noes! We agree with one another about something, so that must mean that we are old school chums or something.) I have been amused in the course of this thread to be accused of being both a Tory and a LibDem by the shrill and defensive acolytes of the Purple Flame that guard the sacred person of The Dear Leader and the Holy Wisdom of Bloke in Pub that he purveys. The level of histrionic shrieking by the offended righteous goes up to 11. I doubt that you will get a straight answer to your question of why these honest and plain dealing types in good old tweed coats choose to stand next to some people who want to segregate public transport.

Indeed. I'd like just to hear what the racist policies are that have got everyone upset. Is anyone going to say ?

[anonymous-user]

Guam said:

Breadvan72 said:

DonkeyApple, good points. (Oh noes! We agree with one another about something, so that must mean that we are old school chums or something). I have been amused in the course of this thread to be accused of being both a Tory and a LibDem by the shrill and defensive acolytes of the Purple Flame that guard the sacred person of the Leader and the Holy Wisdom of Bloke in Pub that he purveys. The level of histrionic shrieking by the offended righteous goes up to 11. I doubt that you will get a straught answer to your question of why these honest and plain dealing types in good old tweed coats choose to stand next to some people who want to segregate public transport.

Wow can I have a pint of whatever you are drinking this early in the morning?
Utter bilge.

Powerful, witty, reasoned, persuasive. Wildean, with a hint of GBS, and perhaps a piquant dash of Marx (G)? Please do share the recipe. (Alas, I perhaps spoke too soon in my previous post.)

[Mark Benson]

DonkeyApple said:

Why is it that if you question what UKIP is doing or if you voice concern in regards to elements of its membership you are left wing?

Surely if someone is going around calling people 'lefties' it is because they see themselves as right wing and when they are accusing right wingers of being 'lefties' then they are extreme right wing?

Is this 'lefty' thing meant to be a slur or a pronouncement?

Also, does UKIP stand for Britain leaving the EU or the destruction of the EU? It doesn't seem that clear. If the latter then what right have we to dictate to other countries and if the former then why do they need to fraternise with groups that should be beneath them?

The issue with UKIP is that there are a lot of sensible questions to ask but they seem to get shut down by supporters in some kind of defensive action.

I'd be interested to know for example where UKIP stands in an independent Scotland, both parties in question are arguing for independence but actually crossing in opposing directions.

I'd also like to know what UKIP's policies are on immigrants as well as immigration. Do they propose a two tier system for example?

But keeping relevant to this thread, why do UKIP consort with far right parties? What is the reason or purpose or even the need?

I voiced my concern about some of UKIPs rhetoric and wasn't accused of being a lefty. In fact, there was some interesting debate. For a short while at least.

Then the Breadvan Gang came along with their thinly veiled insults and it descended into childish name calling. He knows what buttons to press with certain sections of the UKIP supporters and takes great delight in doing so. He tells me it's some kind of distraction from work - odd what passes for sport with the bien peasant left these days, but still...

I'd also like to discuss most of the above points, I think UKIPs rise and influence is fascinating, but it seems that it's impossible on PH these days because of a few shrill voices on either side.

[anonymous-user]

Guam said:

Yes indeed, I thought I would stoop to your level, its not as self satisfying as it appears to be for you, perhaps I need to massage my ego for another century or so?

Take a tip, if you will, and work on the apostrophe first. The ego stuff is a bit more advanced. Another handy hint: the semi colon can be your friend, but the full stop is arguably even friendlier.

[DonkeyApple]

Guam said:

DonkeyApple said:

Why is it that if you question what UKIP is doing or if you voice concern in regards to elements of its membership you are left wing?



But keeping relevant to this thread, why do UKIP consort with far right parties? What is the reason or purpose or even the need?

Well as someone who is historically left wing in outlook yet am considering voting UKIP I do see where those criticisms come from.

However to your last point, you keep dragging that up without defining exactly your issue, as the thread relates to purely the EU groupings and it has been answered several times, there is a requirement foisted on parties to collect in groupings, those groupings have to be of broadly similar views, but there is no necessity for them to share all viewpoints.

Applying the same standards one would expect the Tory's in CRS to be hard line bible thumpers who draw inspiration for policy from the old testament, sorry DA its a non argument, the most basic of research will indicate how this stuff works and you can if you wish, examine the members of every grouping without too much effort.

Its a structural necessity and the members of that grouping have a common interest which is withdrawal from the EU, its no more than that as far as I can see, unless you can show different.

Thanks. I know that a response has been put forward in the past but there is still no explanation as to why UKIP need to do this?

If the aim is to leave the EU then it is the UK people and a domestic referendum that they require.

Surely these partnerships within Brussels are about attempting to destroy the EU as opposed to us leaving it? What right does anyone from one country have to force a belief or action on the people of another? Least of all a party whose existence seems to be based on this not being done to us?

This is what I do not understand and can't seem to have explained. It would help if it were clarified as to whether people want Britain to leave the EU or for the EU to be destroyed and what their reasonings are.

Personally, I don't buy into the argument that we would be financially worse off by leaving. I can see issues with doing business as the lesser EU members attempt protectionism. I don't see EU migration as a huge issue. I feel that any immigration issue we have is based on non Christian, inbred village idiots.

Frankly, I do not understand what UKIP are doing in Brussels when it serves no purpose to the UK.

[anonymous-user]

Mark B, "thinly veiled", how very dare you! "Oi, Mister, did you call my thread a Muslim?" As I've said before, it is cruel to mock the weak of thinking, but a harmless distraction. Yes, I agree that shooting actual kippers in a barrel with a machine gun would be more difficult than getting an incoherently furious rise from a 'kipper. There's no veiling, though. Some of us scorn UKIP, deride its charlatan leader, and laugh pityingly at his gullible followers. We are talking about politics and opinions, and if others do not like opinions expressed within a forum that is broadly tolerant of free speech, subject to light moderation, they can spend their time instead on one of the "Aren't UKIP ace, and isn't Nige the greatest living Englishman!" threads. Such is freedom. Great, eh?

[don4l]

Breadvan72 said:

DonkeyApple, good points. (Oh noes! We agree with one another about something, so that must mean that we are old school chums or something.) I have been amused in the course of this thread to be accused of being both a Tory and a LibDem by the shrill and defensive acolytes of the Purple Flame that guard the sacred person of The Dear Leader and the Holy Wisdom of Bloke in Pub that he purveys. The level of histrionic shrieking by the offended righteous goes up to 11. I doubt that you will get a straight answer to your question of why these honest and plain dealing types in good old tweed coats choose to stand next to some people who want to segregate public transport.

PS: Guam, who is perhaps most intellectually honest and semi rational 'kipper on here, makes a good stab, but the answer is unconvincing, as there is no need for UKIP to do anything other than stand alone in the Europarl, which it affects to disdain in any event (while pocketing the pay cheques and expenses).

Edited by Breadvan72 on Tuesday 15th April 09:13

Huh?

More dissembling.

Your case must be very weak if you have to resort to this drivel.

I am quite stunned by the level of hypocrisy on display in this thread. You accuse others of "Histrionic shreiking" and in the same post you write the highlighted rubbish.

[Mark Benson]

DonkeyApple said:

Thanks. I know that a response has been put forward in the past but there is still no explanation as to why UKIP need to do this?

If the aim is to leave the EU then it is the UK people and a domestic referendum that they require.

Surely these partnerships within Brussels are about attempting to destroy the EU as opposed to us leaving it? What right does anyone from one country have to force a belief or action on the people of another? Least of all a party whose existence seems to be based on this not being done to us?

This is what I do not understand and can't seem to have explained. It would help if it were clarified as to whether people want Britain to leave the EU or for the EU to be destroyed and what their reasonings are.

Personally, I don't buy into the argument that we would be financially worse off by leaving. I can see issues with doing business as the lesser EU members attempt protectionism. I don't see EU migration as a huge issue. I feel that any immigration issue we have is based on non Christian, inbred village idiots.

Frankly, I do not understand what UKIP are doing in Brussels when it serves no purpose to the UK.

I suspect it's tribal, historically there have been very few anti-EU parties in the parliament (for obvious reasons) and so the ones that were will have banded together, just like a lot of the other associations made between groups with similar aims.

The EU parliament gives a party like UKIP a platform - how many times have we seen the 'damp dishrag' speech and how else would Farage have had a platform to give it? The EU elections are a good place for a Euro-sceptic party to campaign and be elected as opposed to a general election which is harder fought and voters tend to be more considered in their choice of candidate.

My own question is that while I feel we should probably be out of the EU (and I've never really heard a convincing argument for staying in), I don't like the UKIP rhetoric on immigration (while agreeing with the core principal of having equal rights of entry to all) so would have to hold my nose to vote for a UKIP candidate in a general election.

[anonymous-user]

Don4l, look it up. One of the Lega Nord's leading lights called for segregation on the buses in Milan. A smear is not a smear when it's true.

[anonymous-user]

Look here for some hot and steamy 'kipper on 'kipper action. Warning: may contain crumpet*. Disgruntled UKIP bloke having a right old ranty at Nige. Looks like a spoof but may actually be for real.


http://juniusonukip.blogspot.co.uk/


* 10PS, the crumpets were burned, again. Report to the jakes after Big School for the customary thrashing, you howwid little tick.

[DonkeyApple]

Guam said:

DonkeyApple said:

Guam said:

DonkeyApple said:

Why is it that if you question what UKIP is doing or if you voice concern in regards to elements of its membership you are left wing?



But keeping relevant to this thread, why do UKIP consort with far right parties? What is the reason or purpose or even the need?

Well as someone who is historically left wing in outlook yet am considering voting UKIP I do see where those criticisms come from.

However to your last point, you keep dragging that up without defining exactly your issue, as the thread relates to purely the EU groupings and it has been answered several times, there is a requirement foisted on parties to collect in groupings, those groupings have to be of broadly similar views, but there is no necessity for them to share all viewpoints.

Applying the same standards one would expect the Tory's in CRS to be hard line bible thumpers who draw inspiration for policy from the old testament, sorry DA its a non argument, the most basic of research will indicate how this stuff works and you can if you wish, examine the members of every grouping without too much effort.

Its a structural necessity and the members of that grouping have a common interest which is withdrawal from the EU, its no more than that as far as I can see, unless you can show different.

Thanks. I know that a response has been put forward in the past but there is still no explanation as to why UKIP need to do this?

If the aim is to leave the EU then it is the UK people and a domestic referendum that they require.

Surely these partnerships within Brussels are about attempting to destroy the EU as opposed to us leaving it? What right does anyone from one country have to force a belief or action on the people of another? Least of all a party whose existence seems to be based on this not being done to us?

This is what I do not understand and can't seem to have explained. It would help if it were clarified as to whether people want Britain to leave the EU or for the EU to be destroyed and what their reasonings are.

Personally, I don't buy into the argument that we would be financially worse off by leaving. I can see issues with doing business as the lesser EU members attempt protectionism. I don't see EU migration as a huge issue. I feel that any immigration issue we have is based on non Christian, inbred village idiots.

Frankly, I do not understand what UKIP are doing in Brussels when it serves no purpose to the UK.

From everything I read on the background and the relevant EU regs, groupings get Committee places, extra funding and more debating time in the chamber, a Party therefore needs to do it, if it is to fully represent the national interests of its constituents, I agree with the point that there should be no need and it is to my mind a reasonable criticism of the internal mechanism that the EU created, that requires such decisions to be made, it forces parties (all of them) to hook up with bedfellows they may otherwise choose not to if this requirement was not in place.

That is also my understanding but if UKIP stands for leaving the EU, or at least having a referendum, then why are they sitting in the EU forming allegiances with some extreme parties in order to obtain additional funding and to try and influence EU actions?

In reality, how is it possible to even be in the same room as some of these right wing parties, let alone do deals with them. I simply cannot get my head around this minor point, let alone why they are in Brussels.

They should be in the UK rallying the British people to vote for them.

This is what doesn't add up for me. Why are they in Brussels?

[anonymous-user]

Guam said:

Breadvan72 said:

Don4l, look it up. One of the Lega Nord's leading lights called for segregation on the buses in Milan. A smear is not a smear when it's true.

That may well be true, however how many on our little backwater are members of Lega Nord?

None, I hope, but it's the question of hooking up with people who are. You have made a creditable effort to explain the Parliamentary grouping, being perhaps the first pro UKIP voice in many pages to engage with the issues and not simply bleat about the howwid liberals bullying you and dissing the Sainted Nige; but I am not yet persuaded, not least because of the avowed approach of UKIP to the Parliament itself.

[don4l]

Breadvan72 said:

Don4l, look it up. One of the Lega Nord's leading lights called for segregation on the buses in Milan. A smear is not a smear when it's true.

It is not true that UKIP have called for segregation on busses.

You know that as well as I know it.

If you have something of substance to say about UKIP, then you should say it. As a lawyer, you are well aware that argument by association is a logical fallacy. I am sure that you would never be stupid enough to attempt this in court.

[10 Pence Short]

And what is it, precisely, about Farage's behaviour in respect of Europe that makes you believe he genuinely wants the EU's influence to end?

[Zod]

4v6 said:

Well 24 hours later and I'd have expected at least a couple of replies regarding the reasons for all the hate thrown at ukip/supporters/farage, but I guess it was too much to expect, it must be predjudice.

Maybe a passing mod could rename the thread to Breadvans Ukip hate thread or suchlike?

A bit much even for here?

Various hate fuelled leftists said:

Kippers

UKIP hang round with a bunch of neo Facist nut jobs

idiocy of some idiots

he willingly allies himself with Neo Fascist nutjobs

even a 'kipper doesn't need that written out in crayon,

Ridiculing hateful idiots is one (not the only) way of responding to them.

'Kippers like sunny holidays, but hate Jonny Foreigner

Farage's main vice is that he's an hypocrite - a systematically dishonest (second) career politician masquerading as a bloke in the pub.

+1 .....and UKIP are happy to be politically associated with this lot

I wonder how big a fan Farage is of Breivik, or perhaps even vice versa

Farage is ludicrous

Farage has a populist appeal to the gullible, the ill informed, and the angry who are easily taken in by alarmism and plain lying,

Remember, you're talking to 'kippers. Type slowly!

fruitloopy or hatey UKIP types

In the interests of inclusivity this post is written in crayon

oh yeah a real "everyman"

He would also attract plenty of BNP votes in the slums.

I would rather rub donkey jizz in my hair than vote UKIP

UKIP thrive on division, ignorance & fear.

the man himself is an utter charlatan, and probably one of the most dishonest professional politicians active in the UK today

When NF's plane crashed he was putting the Champagne on ice, and was very upset when the Nige emerged from the wreckage unscathed.

A glib talker

his giggling minions and somewhat unpalatable "allies of convenience" (Lega Nord et al)

I think that the word charlatan fits him

That makes him dishonest by any normal standard

They base their criticism fundamentally on the fact that the EU is "foreign", and that is what really trails the coat of UKIP and its benighted followers

a sort of quasi-religious cult, based on belief, not reason, and led by a typical cult leader: a charismatic fraud.

Think of the pub bore who now gets to be a well paid professional pub bore.

It is cruel and wrong to laugh at the afflicted, but that doesn't stop it being fun

they don't like the EU or immigrants and align themselves with some rather nasty people in the EU.

Of course if UKIPs chums at Lega Nord (to bring the thread back to its roots) had their way we'd be on a special white mans bus,

Lega Nord haven't changed theirs. UKIP is still in bed with them.

Farage lies on this issue, just as he lies on the membership fee.

he is the epitome of the careful spin merchant

if you follow a ridiculous creed, then expect to be ridiculed

the comments are dominated by UKIP acolytes.

There are a fair few racists, but leave them to fester in the places where racists fester (eg: UKIP discussion boards)

And you wonder where the swivel eyed loon tag comes from

Nige is the only party leader who has to spend quite so much time apologising for, disowning and expelling his followers.

a politician who makes mendacity an art form

He's a snake oil salesman.

UKIP as a passing protest fad/bunch of reactionary hateys.

The swivel-eyed frothy bitter aftertaste (not as apparent in the others) is also a deterrent.

UKIP attracts people who have old fashioned and bigoted ideas about nationality, sexuality, and so forth.

attempt of the PH UKIP supporters to suggest that UKIP is not a haven for people who have Alf Garnett mindset

denial about the ugly face of their faith

another isolated incident of a UKIP politician being suspected of fraud this week

UKIP seem to be attracting an exceptionally large number. [ of racists]

When even the founder of UKIP thinks they're racist

can all play "Looney or Fruitcake"

why would that make sts from UKIP any less deserving of scrutiny

laughable cohorts.

How many kinds of racist are you?

I reckon Farage is secretly funded by the United British Benefits Scroungers' Alliance to ensure attention is diverted away from them, and dirty Johnny Foreigner provides a convenient scapegoat.

UKIP members holding dreadful views

ignorant hateys

Let us assume that, despite the evidence to the contrary, UKIP is not a righty-hatey group

crayon may be a bit too advanced for you, and we may have to break the glass and deploy the emergency finger paints.

How does a UKIP supporter separate them self from the racists though? The party clearly attracts this element of society.

You're a low brow punter who can't even read properly

UKIP is talking to these far right groups

This is pitiable. If I could be bothered, I could respond with a list of all the slurs posted by UKIP supporters and sympathisers about the other parties or "LibLabCon" or the "EU party" and their politicians.

edited to fix the quoting.

Edited by Zod on Tuesday 15th April 10:27

[PRTVR]

Zod said:

4v6 said:

Well 24 hours later and I'd have expected at least a couple of replies regarding the reasons for all the hate thrown at ukip/supporters/farage, but I guess it was too much to expect, it must be predjudice.

Maybe a passing mod could rename the thread to Breadvans Ukip hate thread or suchlike?

A bit much even for here?

Various hate fuelled leftists said:

Kippers

UKIP hang round with a bunch of neo Facist nut jobs

idiocy of some idiots

he willingly allies himself with Neo Fascist nutjobs

even a 'kipper doesn't need that written out in crayon,

Ridiculing hateful idiots is one (not the only) way of responding to them.

'Kippers like sunny holidays, but hate Jonny Foreigner

Farage's main vice is that he's an hypocrite - a systematically dishonest (second) career politician masquerading as a bloke in the pub.

+1 .....and UKIP are happy to be politically associated with this lot

I wonder how big a fan Farage is of Breivik, or perhaps even vice versa

Farage is ludicrous

Farage has a populist appeal to the gullible, the ill informed, and the angry who are easily taken in by alarmism and plain lying,

Remember, you're talking to 'kippers. Type slowly!

fruitloopy or hatey UKIP types

In the interests of inclusivity this post is written in crayon

oh yeah a real "everyman"

He would also attract plenty of BNP votes in the slums.

I would rather rub donkey jizz in my hair than vote UKIP

UKIP thrive on division, ignorance & fear.

the man himself is an utter charlatan, and probably one of the most dishonest professional politicians active in the UK today

When NF's plane crashed he was putting the Champagne on ice, and was very upset when the Nige emerged from the wreckage unscathed.

A glib talker

his giggling minions and somewhat unpalatable "allies of convenience" (Lega Nord et al)

I think that the word charlatan fits him

That makes him dishonest by any normal standard

They base their criticism fundamentally on the fact that the EU is "foreign", and that is what really trails the coat of UKIP and its benighted followers

a sort of quasi-religious cult, based on belief, not reason, and led by a typical cult leader: a charismatic fraud.

Think of the pub bore who now gets to be a well paid professional pub bore.

It is cruel and wrong to laugh at the afflicted, but that doesn't stop it being fun

they don't like the EU or immigrants and align themselves with some rather nasty people in the EU.

Of course if UKIPs chums at Lega Nord (to bring the thread back to its roots) had their way we'd be on a special white mans bus,

Lega Nord haven't changed theirs. UKIP is still in bed with them.

Farage lies on this issue, just as he lies on the membership fee.

he is the epitome of the careful spin merchant

if you follow a ridiculous creed, then expect to be ridiculed

the comments are dominated by UKIP acolytes.

There are a fair few racists, but leave them to fester in the places where racists fester (eg: UKIP discussion boards)

And you wonder where the swivel eyed loon tag comes from

Nige is the only party leader who has to spend quite so much time apologising for, disowning and expelling his followers.

a politician who makes mendacity an art form

He's a snake oil salesman.

UKIP as a passing protest fad/bunch of reactionary hateys.

The swivel-eyed frothy bitter aftertaste (not as apparent in the others) is also a deterrent.

UKIP attracts people who have old fashioned and bigoted ideas about nationality, sexuality, and so forth.

attempt of the PH UKIP supporters to suggest that UKIP is not a haven for people who have Alf Garnett mindset

denial about the ugly face of their faith

another isolated incident of a UKIP politician being suspected of fraud this week

UKIP seem to be attracting an exceptionally large number. [ of racists]

When even the founder of UKIP thinks they're racist

can all play "Looney or Fruitcake"

why would that make sts from UKIP any less deserving of scrutiny

laughable cohorts.

How many kinds of racist are you?

I reckon Farage is secretly funded by the United British Benefits Scroungers' Alliance to ensure attention is diverted away from them, and dirty Johnny Foreigner provides a convenient scapegoat.

UKIP members holding dreadful views

ignorant hateys

Let us assume that, despite the evidence to the contrary, UKIP is not a righty-hatey group

crayon may be a bit too advanced for you, and we may have to break the glass and deploy the emergency finger paints.

How does a UKIP supporter separate them self from the racists though? The party clearly attracts this element of society.

You're a low brow punter who can't even read properly

UKIP is talking to these far right groups

This is pitiable. If I could be bothered, I could respond with a list of all the slurs posted by UKIP supporters and sympathisers about the other parties or "LibLabCon" or the "EU party" and their politicians.

edited to fix the quoting.

Edited by Zod on Tuesday 15th April 10:27

But the thread is not about any of the other parties, it contained Kipper in its heading, and the purpose was to smear UKIP, it is that simple.