Cyril Smith - the revellations
Discussion
FiF said:
Now got a number of ex-detectives and uniforms coming out claiming they were forced to sign gagging orders stopping them from speaking out over orders to drop prosecution under threat of security to job, career prospects and pensions.
If they are allowed to speak out, then it could be the beginning of the end for the Establishment as we know it.My money's on a long summer of bluster, damage-limitation, and fitful, mealy-mouthed commitments to finding the truth and delivering justice to the victims.
Then a public enquiry which will span the GE period meaning it's played down for that, but the players can all bask in the aura of catharsis as they send the cleaners into the stables.
The chances are still slim of this getting to the point of making changes at the heart of the system.
MrCarPark said:
If they are allowed to speak out, then it could be the beginning of the end for the Establishment as we know it.
My money's on a long summer of bluster, damage-limitation, and fitful, mealy-mouthed commitments to finding the truth and delivering justice to the victims.
Then a public enquiry which will span the GE period meaning it's played down for that, but the players can all bask in the aura of catharsis as they send the cleaners into the stables.
The chances are still slim of this getting to the point of making changes at the heart of the system.
Agree. Plus may be the odd sacrificial lamb. My money's on a long summer of bluster, damage-limitation, and fitful, mealy-mouthed commitments to finding the truth and delivering justice to the victims.
Then a public enquiry which will span the GE period meaning it's played down for that, but the players can all bask in the aura of catharsis as they send the cleaners into the stables.
The chances are still slim of this getting to the point of making changes at the heart of the system.
joe_90 said:
FiF said:
Now got a number of ex-detectives and uniforms coming out claiming they were forced to sign gagging orders stopping them from speaking out over orders to drop prosecution under threat of security to job, career prospects and pensions.
source on this?? MrCarPark said:
joe_90 said:
FiF said:
Now got a number of ex-detectives and uniforms coming out claiming they were forced to sign gagging orders stopping them from speaking out over orders to drop prosecution under threat of security to job, career prospects and pensions.
source on this?? In the comments online after the Panorama programme about it in 2006 one of the officers said that Devon was thought to be a sleepy place and didn't get the funding it needed to investigate such a case. When some of their officers were found to be misusing their police powers to fish for leads for journalists on a wholesale basis possibly with the information going back to the Murdoch press that didn't go to court with the expense of it being cited as the reason. If it had gone to court and police officers and their customers paying for information were identified would it have lessened the chances of Milly Dowler's phone getting hacked and the need for the Leveson Inquiry?
If police officers are leant on by those above and around them to keep schtumm over child sex rings, what else are they bullied to drop or forget?
Guam said:
I am becoming minded that what we need is a Special Prosecutor operation similar to the Italians who report (as I understand it) to the Judiciary and could then investigate politicians and other senior figures without any adverse pressure being brought to bear. Not sure how effective it might be here but it has to be better than what is going on now, those in power, should not be able to be above the law.
David Cameron said of Coulson's conviction last week 'I said nobody is above the law'. Let's hope it sticks to that line on this.I think Derek Smith has previously opined that Dacre and The Daily Mail are on a mission, so their front cover tomorrow may come as no surprise:
Is Emma wearing 'eff me no heels'?
from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-2820519...
Is Emma wearing 'eff me no heels'?
from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-2820519...
A senior detective investigating sex abuse claims against Cyril Smith told his boss there was "prima facie" evidence of the MP's guilt.
The detective's 1970 report to the Chief Constable of Lancashire said the Liberal MP would have been "at the mercy of a competent counsel".
The 14-page report, which has been shown to the BBC, also revealed "veiled threats" from a friend of Smith.
The Director of Public Prosecution later advised against prosecuting.
The officer, whose name has been redacted from the report, was investigating allegations of sex abuse by eight young boys, six of whom who had been at the privately-run Cambridge House care home in Rochdale.
The home closed in 1965, prior to Smith's election as an MP.
The former MP for Rochdale was interviewed by the detective superintendent, who reported to former chief constable William Palfrey that "it seems impossible to excuse [Smith's] conduct".
"Over a considerable period of time, while sheltering beneath a veneer of responsibility, he has used his unique position to indulge in a series of indecent episodes with young boys towards whom he had a special responsibility," he wrote.
He said Smith was "most unimpressive during my interview with him".
The officer said: "He had difficulty in articulating and even the stock replies he proffered could only be obtained after repeated promptings from his solicitor.
"Were he ever to be placed in the witness box, he would be at the mercy of any competent counsel.
"Prima facie, he appears guilty of numerous offences of indecent assault."
... more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28...
unreal that the b
d got away with it
The detective's 1970 report to the Chief Constable of Lancashire said the Liberal MP would have been "at the mercy of a competent counsel".
The 14-page report, which has been shown to the BBC, also revealed "veiled threats" from a friend of Smith.
The Director of Public Prosecution later advised against prosecuting.
The officer, whose name has been redacted from the report, was investigating allegations of sex abuse by eight young boys, six of whom who had been at the privately-run Cambridge House care home in Rochdale.
The home closed in 1965, prior to Smith's election as an MP.
The former MP for Rochdale was interviewed by the detective superintendent, who reported to former chief constable William Palfrey that "it seems impossible to excuse [Smith's] conduct".
"Over a considerable period of time, while sheltering beneath a veneer of responsibility, he has used his unique position to indulge in a series of indecent episodes with young boys towards whom he had a special responsibility," he wrote.
He said Smith was "most unimpressive during my interview with him".
The officer said: "He had difficulty in articulating and even the stock replies he proffered could only be obtained after repeated promptings from his solicitor.
"Were he ever to be placed in the witness box, he would be at the mercy of any competent counsel.
"Prima facie, he appears guilty of numerous offences of indecent assault."
... more
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28...
unreal that the b
d got away with it
rover 623gsi said:
It's not really. Those with power and authority will use it, misuse it, to further their ambitions, often merely to indulge illicit desires or to gain more power. There have been life peers who have been exposed as child molesters and have had no real encumbrance to their position in society. We've had MPs who have been caught with their hands in the till, or their snouts in a trough, or abusing their trust who are called on to comment on the morals of others. There was a fine example of this only yesterday. We've had cabinet ministers refuse to comply with the rules of the house and who are still out there, mping.We get the Profumo Affair and the one bloke who comes out of it with least stain on him is the titular bloke. Indeed, he comes out with a degree of credit. The establishment went to town on one poor chap, just to show how honest and upstanding they were, and now we know that probably the same proportion were stealing, buggering children, indulging strange illegal desires and ruining the lives of others.
How they must have laughed.
Still, as someone on another thread suggested, it is all right for this mob to read our personal correspondence as there are laws to protect us and that the MP know best.
Hardly unreal at all. In fact, the norm.
I've mentioned it before, so I'll mention it again: a colleague was threatened over Smith and she felt obliged to leave the police. She was the best instructor I'd ever seen, but because of Smith's powerful guardians, she was the one pushed around. Yet, compared to what happened to others in the case, her problems are minor. In fact, she's now running her own business and also a large charity. But she was bullied and threatened by those in authority and their guardians.
And it is still going one.
[quote=Derek Smith]
We get the Profumo Affair and the one bloke who comes out of it with least stain on him is the titular bloke. Indeed, he comes out with a degree of credit. The establishment went to town on one poor chap, just to show how honest and upstanding they were, and now we know that probably the same proportion were stealing, buggering children, indulging strange illegal desires and ruining the lives of others.
How they must have laughed.
quote]
An accurate picture of the awful system at it's worst. However, to call Profumo 'one poor chap' is a stretch. To portray someone in his job, with his responsibilities and with so much to lose even in spite of his 'friends', as a poor chap, rather misses the point. He deserved everything he got - surprised it wasn't more. He also deserved all the credit he got for the exemplary life he led afterwards: suitable remorse one assumes. I wonder if his family ever lived it down but then prior to being discovered that didn't seem to matter much to him.
We get the Profumo Affair and the one bloke who comes out of it with least stain on him is the titular bloke. Indeed, he comes out with a degree of credit. The establishment went to town on one poor chap, just to show how honest and upstanding they were, and now we know that probably the same proportion were stealing, buggering children, indulging strange illegal desires and ruining the lives of others.
How they must have laughed.
quote]
An accurate picture of the awful system at it's worst. However, to call Profumo 'one poor chap' is a stretch. To portray someone in his job, with his responsibilities and with so much to lose even in spite of his 'friends', as a poor chap, rather misses the point. He deserved everything he got - surprised it wasn't more. He also deserved all the credit he got for the exemplary life he led afterwards: suitable remorse one assumes. I wonder if his family ever lived it down but then prior to being discovered that didn't seem to matter much to him.
Edited by Thorodin on Thursday 17th July 19:33
BBC World at One had a very interesting piece of journalism:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0499j2t 27.30 mins in i player.
The poor interviewee had experience of Smith & it has obviously damaged him for 40+ years.
Further discussions centred around officers being told to keep quiet or lose their job.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0499j2t 27.30 mins in i player.
The poor interviewee had experience of Smith & it has obviously damaged him for 40+ years.
Further discussions centred around officers being told to keep quiet or lose their job.
Thorodin]erek Smith said:
We get the Profumo Affair and the one bloke who comes out of it with least stain on him is the titular bloke. Indeed, he comes out with a degree of credit. The establishment went to town on one poor chap, just to show how honest and upstanding they were, and now we know that probably the same proportion were stealing, buggering children, indulging strange illegal desires and ruining the lives of others.
How they must have laughed.
quote]
An accurate picture of the awful system at it's worst. However, to call Profumo 'one poor chap' is a stretch. To portray someone in his job, with his responsibilities and with so much to lose even in spite of his 'friends', as a poor chap, rather misses the point. He deserved everything he got - surprised it wasn't more. He also deserved all the credit he got for the exemplary life he led afterwards: suitable remorse one assumes. I wonder if his family ever lived it down but then prior to being discovered that didn't seem to matter much to him.
It wasn't Profumo whom I meant as 'the one poor chap'.How they must have laughed.
quote]
An accurate picture of the awful system at it's worst. However, to call Profumo 'one poor chap' is a stretch. To portray someone in his job, with his responsibilities and with so much to lose even in spite of his 'friends', as a poor chap, rather misses the point. He deserved everything he got - surprised it wasn't more. He also deserved all the credit he got for the exemplary life he led afterwards: suitable remorse one assumes. I wonder if his family ever lived it down but then prior to being discovered that didn't seem to matter much to him.
Profumo was punished quite heavily as he lost his job and his position in life - but deserved it I suppose. His wife was a film actress and she weathered the storm. He was occasionally (I have no idea how often, but I saw him) down the East End where he was treated as a hero by the vagrants and the locals.
He learned from his mistake. So good on him. He deserved his honour.
carinaman said:
I saw him on Sky News earlier.
So the only 'customer' of Elm House was that Priest from Norfolk that officiated at Frank Bruno's wedding? It's nonce sense to suggest that he was the only chap using that place.
Paedophiles exist in other walks of life and professions, but it doesn't figure in the political class because they're different?
i would say it figures highly in the political class precisely because of their differences,slightly more so on the right,again because of their differences .So the only 'customer' of Elm House was that Priest from Norfolk that officiated at Frank Bruno's wedding? It's nonce sense to suggest that he was the only chap using that place.
Paedophiles exist in other walks of life and professions, but it doesn't figure in the political class because they're different?
Derek Smith said:
It's not really. Those with power and authority will use it, misuse it, to further their ambitions, often merely to indulge illicit desires or to gain more power. There have been life peers who have been exposed as child molesters and have had no real encumbrance to their position in society. We've had MPs who have been caught with their hands in the till, or their snouts in a trough, or abusing their trust who are called on to comment on the morals of others. There was a fine example of this only yesterday. We've had cabinet ministers refuse to comply with the rules of the house and who are still out there, mping.
We get the Profumo Affair and the one bloke who comes out of it with least stain on him is the titular bloke. Indeed, he comes out with a degree of credit. The establishment went to town on one poor chap, just to show how honest and upstanding they were, and now we know that probably the same proportion were stealing, buggering children, indulging strange illegal desires and ruining the lives of others.
How they must have laughed.
Still, as someone on another thread suggested, it is all right for this mob to read our personal correspondence as there are laws to protect us and that the MP know best.
Hardly unreal at all. In fact, the norm.
I've mentioned it before, so I'll mention it again: a colleague was threatened over Smith and she felt obliged to leave the police. She was the best instructor I'd ever seen, but because of Smith's powerful guardians, she was the one pushed around. Yet, compared to what happened to others in the case, her problems are minor. In fact, she's now running her own business and also a large charity. But she was bullied and threatened by those in authority and their guardians.
And it is still going one.
any suggestions as to how to stop it derek . i am of the dragging and burning persuasion but appreciate we do not have enough french people in the uk to make much of a success of that.We get the Profumo Affair and the one bloke who comes out of it with least stain on him is the titular bloke. Indeed, he comes out with a degree of credit. The establishment went to town on one poor chap, just to show how honest and upstanding they were, and now we know that probably the same proportion were stealing, buggering children, indulging strange illegal desires and ruining the lives of others.
How they must have laughed.
Still, as someone on another thread suggested, it is all right for this mob to read our personal correspondence as there are laws to protect us and that the MP know best.
Hardly unreal at all. In fact, the norm.
I've mentioned it before, so I'll mention it again: a colleague was threatened over Smith and she felt obliged to leave the police. She was the best instructor I'd ever seen, but because of Smith's powerful guardians, she was the one pushed around. Yet, compared to what happened to others in the case, her problems are minor. In fact, she's now running her own business and also a large charity. But she was bullied and threatened by those in authority and their guardians.
And it is still going one.
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