Cyril Smith - the revellations
Discussion
I, I am glad to say, have no idea what goes on in the minds of these awful people and have never seen any photos of it. I've never seen any porn on the internet, never even been 'curious'. I consider myself normal, not in the least introverted or shy, and have lived a long time in the warm surroundings of my family.
I deplore the sexual revolution that started in the 60's yet that period was my formative years and I thoroughly enjoyed every moment. Like so many I was not in the least aware of such things and feel horrified at what we now know - even to the point of squirming embarrassment just in case I might have inadvertently once said something that caused a questioning look.
It throws one's whole life into doubt and provokes unkind thoughts about one's colleagues and even friends. The damage to our quality of life is massive although latent. Those who defended such people by turning a blind eye, by professing ignorance, or through fears of standing up against these horrors are in my view every bit as guilty. I hate them for making me think about these things.
'Normal' people can no longer walk through a park and enjoy the laughter of children playing for fear of searching stares from anxious parents. I have always been an advocate of the abolition of capital penalties but for these offences I would gladly pull the trap door lever.
I deplore the sexual revolution that started in the 60's yet that period was my formative years and I thoroughly enjoyed every moment. Like so many I was not in the least aware of such things and feel horrified at what we now know - even to the point of squirming embarrassment just in case I might have inadvertently once said something that caused a questioning look.
It throws one's whole life into doubt and provokes unkind thoughts about one's colleagues and even friends. The damage to our quality of life is massive although latent. Those who defended such people by turning a blind eye, by professing ignorance, or through fears of standing up against these horrors are in my view every bit as guilty. I hate them for making me think about these things.
'Normal' people can no longer walk through a park and enjoy the laughter of children playing for fear of searching stares from anxious parents. I have always been an advocate of the abolition of capital penalties but for these offences I would gladly pull the trap door lever.
Derek thanks for some worthwhile contributions to several threads in NP&E.
At the beginning of this thread you opined that it was a Dacre operation with an agenda that you were unsure about?
Couldn't this whole mess be spun to undo the law that makes whistle blowing police officers offenders?
How can legislation that makes police whistle blowing an offence be consistent with the Constable's Oath? Or that's covered as it would be unlawful to blow the whistle due to this new law?
Derek Smith said:
If you see a child who has been abused, or just read a file, you will feel anger and despair. These kids have their lives ruined. All the way through there are those who could have made a difference, have changed the circumstances, given the kid a chance. Yet these people didn't.
Have you ever met an adult that was sexually abused as a kid Derek?At the beginning of this thread you opined that it was a Dacre operation with an agenda that you were unsure about?
Couldn't this whole mess be spun to undo the law that makes whistle blowing police officers offenders?
How can legislation that makes police whistle blowing an offence be consistent with the Constable's Oath? Or that's covered as it would be unlawful to blow the whistle due to this new law?
Edited by carinaman on Monday 16th March 20:45
Thanks for the link Catweazle!
Well done that former police officer for coming forward. Seems there's the odd decent person doing the right thing.
BBC News website on 16 March 2015 said:
Information has been passed to Newsnight by a former officer, who is familiar with the original investigation and its closure.
from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31908431Well done that former police officer for coming forward. Seems there's the odd decent person doing the right thing.
V8 Fettler said:
If paedophilia is widespread within the Establishment then it can only be reduced by constant cycles of change; need to get the culprits and likely culprits outside of their little (and large) insular empires.
Sadly Paedophilia appears to be widespread in society as a whole.
We had a number of victims give talks to police when I was in training. I would normally sit in. For the victim of child abuse I felt that to go in just to sit at the back was rubbernecking. I asked one, as he was going in, if it was all right and he said he would be upset if I changed my normal procedure just for him.
What he said was both heart-rending and inspiring. His life had been changed - modified was the word he used and was happy with - by abuse from a foster parent but after a very difficult period - drug abuse, self harm and all the other fall out from the lack of self respect that often occurs, he was able to change with the help of another victim.
He now said that he did not hate his father, nor his mother for turning a blind eye. He was relaxed about it, answering questions willingly and openly. But that was what he did day after day, it was his life. He was doing what the chap who rescued him was/had been doing and the abuse had limited his life.
It was really very sad. Here was a bloke who had, by all definitions, got over it, and yet his foster father was still running his life.
That was the only such chat I went to.
As for how we change it, I have no idea and there is a feeling of inevitability that it will continue, with the powerful getting their own way again. The attack of police whistle blowers, not being able to chat to the press, and the papers about to be hamstrung all seems to point to self protection of those in authority.
And more on Smith:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997971/Cy...
The suggestion - often mine - that MI5/SB were involved in the cover-up seems to be supported by this article.
There have been delays and further delays in investigations. I have no doubt in my mind that this is due to those in the frame. Other major inquiries have cleverly covered up wrong doing by those in power many times, cleverly deflecting blame and you get the feeling that the same will happen this time.
The press and governments are too close. It is bad enough that we will probably never know much about it, but what is worse, much worse, is that abuse will continue and there's nothing we can do to stop it.
What he said was both heart-rending and inspiring. His life had been changed - modified was the word he used and was happy with - by abuse from a foster parent but after a very difficult period - drug abuse, self harm and all the other fall out from the lack of self respect that often occurs, he was able to change with the help of another victim.
He now said that he did not hate his father, nor his mother for turning a blind eye. He was relaxed about it, answering questions willingly and openly. But that was what he did day after day, it was his life. He was doing what the chap who rescued him was/had been doing and the abuse had limited his life.
It was really very sad. Here was a bloke who had, by all definitions, got over it, and yet his foster father was still running his life.
That was the only such chat I went to.
As for how we change it, I have no idea and there is a feeling of inevitability that it will continue, with the powerful getting their own way again. The attack of police whistle blowers, not being able to chat to the press, and the papers about to be hamstrung all seems to point to self protection of those in authority.
And more on Smith:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997971/Cy...
The suggestion - often mine - that MI5/SB were involved in the cover-up seems to be supported by this article.
There have been delays and further delays in investigations. I have no doubt in my mind that this is due to those in the frame. Other major inquiries have cleverly covered up wrong doing by those in power many times, cleverly deflecting blame and you get the feeling that the same will happen this time.
The press and governments are too close. It is bad enough that we will probably never know much about it, but what is worse, much worse, is that abuse will continue and there's nothing we can do to stop it.
d has to say in court. Foppo said:
Another enquiry involving police where the enquiring is done by the police.
This is a cesspit and it will be covered up.Or people found quilty of wrongdoing who are dead or disappeared.There must be a independent enquiry but this won't happen.
The IPCC are managing the investigation. They could have taken it on completely, but just like Plebgate, they have positioned themselves so that if it goes awry, they can say 'nothing to do with us Guv' and blame the Police. This is a cesspit and it will be covered up.Or people found quilty of wrongdoing who are dead or disappeared.There must be a independent enquiry but this won't happen.
All the headlines yesterday were about the Police, very little about the Politicians who actually carried out the abuse. There is absolutely no doubt that there is an active campaign by current politicians to prevent an active investigation into child abuse. They have done everything in their power to obstruct it. The law making it a criminal offence for a Police Officer to blow the whistle was brought in with this precisely in mind. We are also very familiar with what happens to Officers who (foolishly) go straight to the press over an incident involving a Politician (they're all in the job centre)
I wouldn't normally be someone to defend the Police but if there are senior politicos and/or intelligence service involved they really are on a hiding to nothing.
Perhaps some police are involved as well but we can be sure that it will somebody who is no longer alive who will have the finger pointed at them.
Perhaps some police are involved as well but we can be sure that it will somebody who is no longer alive who will have the finger pointed at them.
Thorodin said:
It occurs to me that a leading politician promising and guaranteeing a full blown enquiry into this, possibly chaired by the MP who had the courage to break it in HoP, might just hold the keys to No.10 in a few weeks.
The last thing I'd want is an MP chairing a full blown enquiry. It's full time job. I'd rather have someone from outside the "establishment" - like a Canadian judge. Someone who is well versed in our legal system but is "untouchable"Elroy Blue said:
All the headlines yesterday were about the Police, very little about the Politicians who actually carried out the abuse...
You're right, only now, thankfully, most people are sufficiently aware of the bigger picture not the be diverted by such tactics.As others have said here, some police may have been negligent, corrupt and even complicit, but they are still not at the very heart of the allegations.
Elroy Blue said:
Foppo said:
Another enquiry involving police where the enquiring is done by the police.
This is a cesspit and it will be covered up.Or people found quilty of wrongdoing who are dead or disappeared.There must be a independent enquiry but this won't happen.
The IPCC are managing the investigation. They could have taken it on completely, but just like Plebgate, they have positioned themselves so that if it goes awry, they can say 'nothing to do with us Guv' and blame the Police. This is a cesspit and it will be covered up.Or people found quilty of wrongdoing who are dead or disappeared.There must be a independent enquiry but this won't happen.
All the headlines yesterday were about the Police, very little about the Politicians who actually carried out the abuse. There is absolutely no doubt that there is an active campaign by current politicians to prevent an active investigation into child abuse. They have done everything in their power to obstruct it. The law making it a criminal offence for a Police Officer to blow the whistle was brought in with this precisely in mind. We are also very familiar with what happens to Officers who (foolishly) go straight to the press over an incident involving a Politician (they're all in the job centre)
Reportedly Simon Danczuk MP was also on about waiving the threat of the Official Secrets Act against the officers that knew about it.
Can't the Police Federation and/or officers use the opportunity to say 'BTW, you know there's this new legislation that constrains police whistle blowers?' also mentioning which politicians wanted that new legislation on the books?
'Cuts have consequences'? So do politicians making new laws constraining police officers from telling the truth.
The name and date for this law may help those that aren't aware of it. Some people may like asking their MPs awkward questions in the run up to an election.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 17th March 15:09
How can a police officer be constrained from reporting a crime to do with children? I know in the real world people don't want to loose their pensions or their jobs.
But please some officers who knew about all of this show some courage.
Why did you become a police officer in the first place.?
But please some officers who knew about all of this show some courage.
Why did you become a police officer in the first place.?
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