Operation Trojan Horse
Discussion
What I've found most uncomfortable with some of these schools is that they've behaved like faith schools without actually being designated as faith schools. They are state schools.
I think the OFSTED report has been politically directed though. Its hard to find something wrong when these people have used the very system to achieve their aims. Hopefully when the dust settles we see a new wave of standards and inspections that ensure all state funded schools (including faith schools) prepare children for a life in modern society.
Its about time what was measured wasn't just the educational achievement of students but also character and values.
I think the OFSTED report has been politically directed though. Its hard to find something wrong when these people have used the very system to achieve their aims. Hopefully when the dust settles we see a new wave of standards and inspections that ensure all state funded schools (including faith schools) prepare children for a life in modern society.
Its about time what was measured wasn't just the educational achievement of students but also character and values.
RedTrident said:
What I've found most uncomfortable with some of these schools is that they've behaved like faith schools without actually being designated as faith schools. They are state schools.
Its hard to find something wrong when these people have used the very system to achieve their aims.
Faith schools are state schools as well.Its hard to find something wrong when these people have used the very system to achieve their aims.
What happened here is that some schools have, apparently, abused the system rather than used it.
RedTrident said:
Its about time what was measured wasn't just the educational achievement of students but also character and values.
If that tallies with personal developent as opposed to academic achievement, it's already in the mix. Ofsted's criteria for outstanding school leadership include something about maintaining "the highest levels of achievement and personal development for all pupils over a sustained period of time."Guam said:
All faith schools should be disbanded imho, if people want religious education they can get it via their churches or mosques.
Education should be secular from where I sit.
For what reasons should parents and pupils who want to be taught in faith schools have that right removed? Education should be secular from where I sit.
What evidence is there that faith schools are sufficiently harmful as a concept that they should be banned?
Guam said:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
In what way?
By segregating society into "religious subsets".Anyone who truly believes in integration in modern society should want and end to religious segregation in schools.
NI is a perfect example of why.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
Guam said:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
In what way?
By segregating society into "religious subsets".Anyone who truly believes in integration in modern society should want and end to religious segregation in schools.
NI is a perfect example of why.
However in terms of Guam's post it was clearly a reference to segregation in schools as well as outside. The reply appeared to move the goalposts to follow-in segregation in wider society only. The position in schools is self-evident in terms of faith schools in areas that are predominantly or wholly of one faith.
Also schools are part of society after all.
Guam said:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
Guam said:
Personal experience I was educated by nuns in my formative years.
Are you segregated from other areas of society because you were educated by nuns?Guam said:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
Where? Where have you said whether or not you feel segregated because of your Christian education?
You have all I am prepared to give you.To summarise;
You want faith schools to be banned on the basis they cause segregation.
You have no evidence they are responsible for segregation or indeed that any segregation is taking place (whether due to faith schools or not). You don't feel segregated due to your own faith based education. However, on what appears to be an unfounded premise, you want to deny those of faith the opportunity to have a faith based education.
Guam said:
Yes well I already know what you think of my "Moral Compass" so getting into an extended debate with you over why I hold such an opinion is fruitless.
The great thing about a free society is the ability to express an opinion and have someone disagree with it, one is not forced to justify that opinion to those like you.
Is that clear enough?
What is clear is that you have nothing to support your opinion. You attempt to hide from this lack of substance by asserting any debate is "fruitless". One has to wonder, if you don't like having your opinions questioned, why do you promote them on a discussion board in the first place?The great thing about a free society is the ability to express an opinion and have someone disagree with it, one is not forced to justify that opinion to those like you.
Is that clear enough?
A feature of organised religion is to follow the supposed instructions of the god figure without question. It appears you wish to enjoy a similar status.
Sticking kids in Burkas and putting "we as Muslims oppose the lifestyle of the West" on your schools website may have given a clue that they couldn't give a f
k about anything other than their own agenda.
If you want children to go to such a school, I'd say you want to be the Jimmy Savile of their minds.
k about anything other than their own agenda.If you want children to go to such a school, I'd say you want to be the Jimmy Savile of their minds.
Mr_B said:
Sticking kids in Burkas and putting "we as Muslims oppose the lifestyle of the West" on your schools website may have given a clue that they couldn't give a fk about anything other than their own agenda.
If you want children to go to such a school, I'd say you want to be the Jimmy Savile of their minds.
Evidence of this ? Genuine question by the way.k about anything other than their own agenda.If you want children to go to such a school, I'd say you want to be the Jimmy Savile of their minds.
We live in Brum and its been one of the subjects that some people have been concerned about.
Its not new. Going back some 10 years one of the neighbours kids got some odd lesson about racial discrimination that was all about muslims being discriminated against.
The girl was in her last year at primary it wasn't a general lesson it was quite specific.
Guam said:
Not promoting expressing, there is a difference.
Indeed. You expressed a controversial opinion, one that would remove the freedoms of hundreds of thousands of people in this country, yet are unable to explain how or why it could be justified, other than it is merely an 'opinion'.gpo746 said:
Mr_B said:
Sticking kids in Burkas and putting "we as Muslims oppose the lifestyle of the West" on your schools website may have given a clue that they couldn't give a fk about anything other than their own agenda.
If you want children to go to such a school, I'd say you want to be the Jimmy Savile of their minds.
Evidence of this ? Genuine question by the way.k about anything other than their own agenda.If you want children to go to such a school, I'd say you want to be the Jimmy Savile of their minds.
We live in Brum and its been one of the subjects that some people have been concerned about.
Its not new. Going back some 10 years one of the neighbours kids got some odd lesson about racial discrimination that was all about muslims being discriminated against.
The girl was in her last year at primary it wasn't a general lesson it was quite specific.
Guam said:
Its my opinion, deal with it.
And you're fully entitled to it, of course.However, the lack of any justification on your behalf lends itself to drawing certain inferences. Specifically regards your attitude to freedom in society (namely that you feel it is OK to arbitrarily remove peoples' freedoms).
Guam said:
Nonsense, Freedom of education is a fundamental right as is freedom of Religion. The two do not have to be interconnected. Many religions cope quite happily with extra curricular religious education.
Saying that the two do not have to be connected is not what you said. You would like to go further and ban the two from being connected. You said this was because faith schools cause segregation.Yet you have no evidence this is the case.
On other threads you have told us at great length how you are not willing to form opinions without having evidence on which to base them. Yet on this occasion (amongst others) you're apparently willing to make an exception.
I don't think people should be restricted from having a faith based education, because I think people should be free to choose. For the record, I don't believe in any religion.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
Guam said:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz said:
Where? Where have you said whether or not you feel segregated because of your Christian education?
You have all I am prepared to give you.To summarise;
You want faith schools to be banned on the basis they cause segregation.
You have no evidence they are responsible for segregation or indeed that any segregation is taking place (whether due to faith schools or not). You don't feel segregated due to your own faith based education. However, on what appears to be an unfounded premise, you want to deny those of faith the opportunity to have a faith based education.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff