Conservative atheists?

[gherkins]

Nick Clegg being honest about his beliefs or lack of them, rather than the "go to church for appearances" type of politician is refreshing. One thing that I cannot understand, and this applies to Nick Clegg, is how one can be married to someone with completely different beliefs, and worse, see their children brought up in those beliefs. I couldn't live with someone with such a fundamentally different view on life.

[Asterix]

No he'd replaced it with the religious houses of the EU and man made climate change.

Edited by Asterix on Tuesday 15th April 13:46

[TwigtheWonderkid]

gherkins said:

One thing that I cannot understand, and this applies to Nick Clegg, is how one can be married to someone with completely different beliefs, and worse, see their children brought up in those beliefs. I couldn't live with someone with such a fundamentally different view on life.

I absolutely agree. Where do you get married for a start? I could never have got married in a church, I just wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror. Or have my children christened. Just alien to my entire being.

I'd like to think my marriage could possibly survive my wife having an affair, but it could never survive her finding God. I'd be off like a shot!

[Art0ir]

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

[anonymous-user]

Art0ir said:

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

You have my vote Sir

[rovermorris999]

fblm said:

Art0ir said:

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

You have my vote Sir

Me too. If only there was a political party for people like us.

[onomatopoeia]

Art0ir said:

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

I'm one of them too. It is not necessary to be on the political left to be a social libertarian (although I am frequently accused of being so).

[Art0ir]

rovermorris999 said:

Me too. If only there was a political party for people like us.

The German FDP slogan is the only one I've ever clicked with, "As little government as possible, as much government as necessary."

[Derek Smith]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I absolutely agree. Where do you get married for a start? I could never have got married in a church, I just wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror. Or have my children christened. Just alien to my entire being.

I'd like to think my marriage could possibly survive my wife having an affair, but it could never survive her finding God. I'd be off like a shot!

That's an interesting point of view and one I hadn't considered.

But thinking about it I can see the logic, or do I mean imperative, with your view. It would be a very difficult living with someone who thought their religion was an important part of their life.

[Bibbs]

Derek Smith said:

It would be a very difficult living with someone who thought their religion was an important part of their life.

I had a girlfriend who broke down in tears one evening, as she "loved me" but didn't want to see me in "an eternity in hell".

[McClure]

rovermorris999 said:

fblm said:

Art0ir said:

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

You have my vote Sir

Me too. If only there was a political party for people like us.

[McClure]

rovermorris999 said:

fblm said:

Art0ir said:

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

You have my vote Sir

Me too. If only there was a political party for people like us.

[Derek Smith]

Bibbs said:

Derek Smith said:

It would be a very difficult living with someone who thought their religion was an important part of their life.

I had a girlfriend who broke down in tears one evening, as she "loved me" but didn't want to see me in "an eternity in hell".

Feel reassured that I have no such worries about you.

An old school friend got in touch a couple of years ago. We remained friends after school but once I got married his lifestyle was incompatible. He was, as they say, a wild child. He was great company though and I liked him.

When I got his email there was gubbins at the bottom in smaller type, but who reads that. He included a very revealing picture of his wife, together with him, with an unattractive church, chapel really, in the background.

Suspicions unaroused, indeed the picture of his near naked wife was something of a throw-back, and as she was his second go, about 15 years his junior, I thought it a bit of showing off.

Whilst having a coffee in Starbucks with him I realised he was born again. He went on and on about finding god or Jesus and tried to get me to come to his church for a similar saving. I asked him if he was serious. When he confirmed it I said: "Oh, Christ!"

I accept this didn't show an awful lot of thought, but I felt I'd been called there on false pretences and was a little irritated.

He became angry and did the bit about taking his name in vain, to the irritation of those around us.

When I pointed out that christ was a title, a rank, an award that many people of the area enjoyed at the time, he was not, remarkably, placated.

Later viewing of the footnotes in his emails showed them to be biblical quotes.

His parting shot was that he was only trying to save me from my pointless life. Yeah, OK, I'll have that. Yet he knew nothing about my adult life and so, in his mind, I was going to hell not because of anything I did or did not do but because I had not found god. Odd point of view.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Bibbs said:

I had a girlfriend who broke down in tears one evening, as she "loved me" but didn't want to see me in "an eternity in hell".

I've been told by a religious person that I'm going straight to hell. My reply..."Great, I hate queuing."

[Engineer1]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Bibbs said:

I had a girlfriend who broke down in tears one evening, as she "loved me" but didn't want to see me in "an eternity in hell".

I've been told by a religious person that I'm going straight to hell. My reply..."Great, I hate queuing."

Given who is likely to get into Heaven I think I'd prefer Hell,

[Derek Smith]

From memory:

Hell is a special place for the devil and his apostles.

Those who worship 'him' will also go there.

I don't think it says much about the indolent, those who can't be arsed, and people who think other gods provide a better cost/benefits ratio.

It would appear, therefore, if you are just generally not too unpleasant, it's not for you. Just not believing isn't a ticket there. If it was then those born before Jesus was born, or 325AD might be the more precise date, would go to hell but then it seems a bit harsh given that Jesus didn't exist until around then. That's not to say that god, any god, isn't harsh. Just the opposite in fact.

Mind you, only those who worship Jesus go to heaven.

[Halb]

[Bradgate]

McClure said:

rovermorris999 said:

fblm said:

Art0ir said:

I'd consider myself a socially liberal, economically conservative atheist I guess. I'm a libertarian though and think the government should have as little involvement in other's and my own life as possible, which makes me an absolutely mentalist according to many.

You have my vote Sir

Me too. If only there was a political party for people like us.

There are very good reasons why there is no British equivalent of the American Libertarian Party, which is that almost no-one would vote for it, as is the case in the USA.

Socially libertarian policies (eg legalising drugs, prostitution & guns, removing all restrictions on gambling etc) would horrify most people over 60, mothers of young children and anyone who reads the Daily Mail.

Economically libertarian policies (eg fully privatised healthcare, education and pensions; unlimited immigration; no minimum wage, employment protection, housing benefit, child benefit or tax credits; repeal of planning restrictions to allow a development free-for-all; binning Trident, leaving NATO and the EU) would horrify just about everyone. Ok, perhaps not the bit about leaving the EU……..

Good luck to any politician telling the British public that if they couldn’t afford private health insurance and got cancer or needed a hip replacement “That’s tough”.

Edited by Bradgate on Wednesday 16th April 12:11

[anonymous-user]

Bradgate said:

Socially libertarian policies (eg legalising drugs, prostitution & guns, removing all restrictions on gambling etc) would horrify most people over 60, mothers of young children and anyone who reads the Daily Mail.

And yet with the exception of guns, are all prevalent throughout the country. If normal people see nothing morally wrong or inherently dangerous with their actions they ignore the law despite very significant risk.

Bradgate said:

Economically libertarian policies

He said Economically conservative, or to borrow a word from a man who does not know what it means, prudence. I've no problem with borrowing money to pay for investment, I've no problem with promising the public sector decent pensions, but you better have some clue how your going to pay for it and pay down debt when you get the chance. A 10 year old can understand why running a structural defict is a bad idea.

Bradgate said:

Good luck to any politician telling the British public that if they couldn’t afford private health insurance and got cancer or needed a hip replacement “That’s tough”.

Strawman. See above.

[Art0ir]

Bradgate said:

There are very good reasons why there is no British equivalent of the American Libertarian Party, which is that almost no-one would vote for it, as is the case in the USA.

I would agree.

Bradgate said:

Socially libertarian policies (eg legalising drugs, prostitution & guns, removing all restrictions on gambling etc) would horrify most people over 60, mothers of young children and anyone who reads the Daily Mail.

I would not change gun legislation, I think our's is one of the few areas where the law is fit for purpose.

Drugs and prostitution I would happily legalise. They already exist in abundance, so the laws are not fit for purpose.

I would legalise and regulate those industries, taking them out of the hands of criminal organisations and taxing them heavily. Perhaps not classic libertarian, but a damn sight better than the current mess.

Bradgate said:

Economically libertarian policies;

Bradgate said:

(eg fully privatised healthcare

No, I would butcher the NHS however and rebuild it from the ground up.

Bradgate said:

education

No.

Bradgate said:

and pensions

Absolutely, financial responsibility is not something the state is very good at

Bradgate said:

unlimited immigration

Definitely not and Milton Friedman told us why a few decades back; true free markets (with no borders) cannot function if one country has a generous welfare system and the other does not.

Bradgate said:

no minimum wage

That I can't answer. Germany is now introducing one which is going to drive up the living costs of a friend living in Thuringen currently, but I haven't investigated enough whether there is a real social and economic cause to do so or if it is just a political tool being used by Merkel.

Bradgate said:

employment protection

I would definitely cut a lot of it

Bradgate said:

housing benefit, child benefit or tax credits;

Absolutely. See the Singaporean system for a better model

Bradgate said:

repeal of planning restrictions to allow a development free-for-all;

We're going to be forced into this position sooner or later with population growth anyway

Bradgate said:

binning Trident

No

Bradgate said:

leaving NATO and the EU

EU certainly...