Saint Nigel with his nose in the trough
Discussion
10 Pence Short said:
Guam,
On one hand you claim that a large percentage of laws are made and implemented from the EU.
On the other, you appear to say that the best way to influence the formation of those laws is to avoid being involved in their formation at all.
And then, thirdly, you claim we should support UKIP, as they've done such a fantastic job, yet you haven't managed to give one solitary example of anything UKIP have achieved. Not a jotter.
Ah, so that's what you think UKIP should be doing to undermine the EU - participating constructively in the creation of EU legislation. Yeah, I can see that would be immensely useful to their cause.On one hand you claim that a large percentage of laws are made and implemented from the EU.
On the other, you appear to say that the best way to influence the formation of those laws is to avoid being involved in their formation at all.
And then, thirdly, you claim we should support UKIP, as they've done such a fantastic job, yet you haven't managed to give one solitary example of anything UKIP have achieved. Not a jotter.
10 Pence Short said:
You're not pissing me off. 
Due to their increased support they were invited to take part in 2 televised debates with the deputy PM over UK's future within the EU. Which has dramatically raised the profile of the issue in the media and wider public. Lots of column inches written, posts on forums, discussions down the pub. It's put it firmly on the political agenda. None of which would have happened if UKIP did not exist and probably not if NF was not their leader.On the basis that the sole aim of the party is UK's exit from the EU, I'd suggest that they've made huge strides in their of their purported aims?
What do you think?
10 Pence Short said:
fblm said:
I'm out, 10PS you're painful...
I can assure you I'm considerably less painful than the realisation that you've been supporting a shyster selling snake oil for the price of some trough snuffling at the EU's (and therefore our) expense.As has been said on this thread, none so blind as those who won't see.
10 Pence Short said:
FiF said:
Damn, I'll have to take lessons from Snowboy then. 
Seriously though, suspect we are both better off by getting out of that debate.
Agreed!Seriously though, suspect we are both better off by getting out of that debate.
On the basis that the sole aim of the party is UK's exit from the EU, I'd suggest that they've made huge strides in their of their purported aims?
What do you think?
Can you give some examples of Politicians/Parties who have done something in support of their purported aims? Please? Pretty Please?
Why? This is a thread discussing UKIP, not other parties. I asked what have UKIP achieved.
So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
10 Pence Short said:
Why? This is a thread discussing UKIP, not other parties. I asked what have UKIP achieved.
So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
are you being deliberately stupid or what?So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
which part of MEP's have nothing what so ever to do with policy making in the EU do you not understand?
all they can do is vote on stuff put before them by the EU commission, ie, a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats (think Neil Kinnock, Chris Patten, Leon Brittan, Roy Jenkins, Christopher Soames, etc etc)
none of which are UKIP (or even ex UKIP) so just how do you expect UKIP to have instigated change in EU?
As has been said, before you go on, I suggest you might want to read up on how EU works...
10 Pence Short said:
Why? This is a thread discussing UKIP, not other parties. I asked what have UKIP achieved.
So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
Because I've already stated that it's impossible to do anything if you do not govern. You clearly do not accept this as you continue to argue that UKIP haven't done anything whilst not in power.....therefore to demonstrate that it is possible to do something positive when not in power, please provide some examples?So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
Otherwise you are agreeing with me that it's impossible for UKIP to do anything, whilst at the same time asking why they haven't done anything....
You've had an example of a UKIP achievement that you have dismissed yet are unable to provide any examples of other's achievement which are more worthy or valid, to be compared against.
10 Pence Short said:
Why? This is a thread discussing UKIP, not other parties. I asked what have UKIP achieved.
So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
Come on. I'm not a UKIP supporter but there is no way we'd have been promised a referendum by the Conservatives if they win. So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
As for those who think they're a genuine alternative with a series of robust polices across a range of issues. We all really know that isn't true. I'm 100% certain that UKIP will not gain 1 single MP. But their stance on Europe has informed the Tories, no question whatsoever.
Anyway back to Nige, did he do anything wrong? Doesn't seem like it from what I can see.
don4l said:
Do you understand the difference between an allowance and an expense claim?
One needs receipts to prove it's being spent correctly. The other relies on trust that it's being spent correctly.Farage, like most UK MEP's, publish spending on their website and he's allocated £17k for office costs. Even with the revised figures in the letter today there is a fairly major discrepancy between the allowance he's accepted and the cost of the office.
But of course we can be utterly sure that all politicians are trustworthy and wouldn't be spending this money on anything other than official business it's time to move on and stop pointing fingers.
10 Pence Short said:
Why? This is a thread discussing UKIP, not other parties. I asked what have UKIP achieved.
So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
Yup, they've got you, nunners, Wombat and BV well rattled So far we have that they've raised the profile of the EU debate. Debating the EU was a pastime well before UKIP were around so it's hard to judge quite how much influence UKIP have had in that respect.
Anything else?
Hard to judge how much influence? Just look at how many smear threads have been started in NP&E. If UKIP weren't having any influence why would you bother discussing it?
They're not having an influence, they're firmly in the driving seat.
WinstonWolf said:
Yup, they've got you, nunners, Wombat and BV well rattled
Hard to judge how much influence? Just look at how many smear threads have been started in NP&E. If UKIP weren't having any influence why would you bother discussing it?
They're not having an influence, they're firmly in the driving seat.
No matter how many times you assert that people (variously classed as those pesky lefties, or the evil Establishment "them", or Uncle Tom Cobbley, or whoever) are afraid of UKIP, the fact remains that I'm not, and I have never met anyone who fears UKIP. Laughs at, yes. As for the evil Establishment, I don't know what Cameron thinks, but I doubt that he lies awake at night sweating in fear of Nige and his Mighty Legion of Truth. Sorry to rain on your parade, but that's just how it is. Hard to judge how much influence? Just look at how many smear threads have been started in NP&E. If UKIP weren't having any influence why would you bother discussing it?
They're not having an influence, they're firmly in the driving seat.
Driving seat? What of? Some pedal car at a Garden Fete?
turbobloke said:
Breadvan72 said:
WinstonWolf said:
smear threads
Driving seat? What of? Some pedal car at a Garden Fete?Breadvan72 said:
Surely not even you, TB, can think that UKIP is driving anything other than its own marginal bandwagon. The idea that UKIP is in the driving seat of UK politics is so fanciful as to call for ridicule.
really?so, you think that the headlines would have been exactly the same for the last few months without their presence?
you think we would even be talking about EU referendums without UKIP pushing it?
why do you think the Times posted the story on Nigel today?
look, nobody is suggesting they are suddenly running the country, but it's pretty blinkered to suggest they are not having a pretty significant effect on the process right now.
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