Saint Nigel with his nose in the trough

[steveT350C]

Guam said:

steveT350C said:

Farage is turkey voting for Xmas, end of.

This naughty little Tory swine however..

http://order-order.com/2014/04/22/peter-lilley-fai...

eta, not exactly 'news' either...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/nov/20...

Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 22 April 20:54

Noooo you cant do that its called whataboutism it would appear, You cant raise other politicians behaviour as UKIP have higher standards than the others, so ANY minor infraction must be far worse than let us say (as an example) "Kiddy fiddling" politicians!

The rules are different once you are voted/allowed into Westminster I guess.

'Nothing is true, everything is permitted'

[AJS-]

eccles said:

AJS- said:

I do find it funny the way even people in full we hate UKIP mode can't find anything more damning to say than that 'he's just as bad as the others.'

That's a two way street you know....

It is, but it was the OP, not us foamy mouthed kippers who beatified Farage. I never thought he was a saint, but at least he is a sinner with some sincere ideas that I agree with.


Going off topic a little but the really noticeable thing about the Clegg/Farage debates was how restricted Clegg was in what he felt he could say. Whether that was because of donors, his position in the coalition or his own advisors perception of what potential Lib Dem voters want to hear, Clegg wasn't able to say what he obviously thought and what I imagine most Lib Dem voters actually do think and believe in.

It was just a muddled collection of smears, half truths and scaremongering with the intention of maintaining the status quo. He then had the arrogance to deride UKIP and it's voters of thinking it was 1954. This is as arrogant as it gets because he was actually telling us what we think then shooting down his own version.

It doesn't wash with me, and apparently with a good number of other voters as well. If there's a case to be made for the EU then make it open and honestly and let the voters decide. If, as I believe is pretty obvious, that we are engaged in a project to build a country called Europe and we are better off in than out then come out and say so, let us put it to a referendum and make an informed decision.

Farage might not have all his ducks in a row policy wise and he might well play to some of the less palatable sections of the gallery on a few issues, but on the very major issues of EU membership and MMGW Farage takes a position that I strongly agree with, and it will take a lot more than some iffy MEP expenses to have me flocking back to the major parties, with their own iffy expenses.

[FiF]

Off topic, AJS- did you get that Excel file, was it of any use?

[FiF]

AJS- said:

It doesn't wash with me, and apparently with a good number of other voters as well. If there's a case to be made for the EU then make it open and honestly and let the voters decide. If, as I believe is pretty obvious, that we are engaged in a project to build a country called Europe and we are better off in than out then come out and say so, let us put it to a referendum and make an informed decision.

Spot on. However I've seen at first hand the result of a referendum when the voters returned the wrong verdict. "Oh you country bumpkin thickies just don't understand." was the best translation of the response from the self appointed elite that I can muster.

[AJS-]

Hi FiF,
Yes I had a browse, sorry I never replied I've been pretty busy lately. Interesting numbers, but not really surprising as it's the trades and manual workers who have so far felt the effects of greatly increased wage competition, and to some degree it's been a benefit to the middle and upper income groups. The most interesting (and alarming) part is the swing to Labour in nearly all "UKIP peripheral" groups.

[FiF]

AJS- said:

Hi FiF,
Yes I had a browse, sorry I never replied I've been pretty busy lately. Interesting numbers, but not really surprising as it's the trades and manual workers who have so far felt the effects of greatly increased wage competition, and to some degree it's been a benefit to the middle and upper income groups. The most interesting (and alarming) part is the swing to Labour in nearly all "UKIP peripheral" groups.

No worries about the lack of reply.

The other thing I would comment which is something of which Farage et al are acutely aware is the age profile. Not reaching the 16 to 24 age group which could be a problem in the longer term.

[AJS-]

I'm not sure that is such a big problem for them. I was one of the weirdos who did support UKIP from my early 20s and I think there's something in the old cliche that if you're not a liberal when you're 20 you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative when you're 40 you have no brain. In my mid 30s I find a lot more people of my age who I generally agree with. I suspect it represents more the idealism of youth than a generational change. I suspect we'll see the same pattern in another 10 years.

[Zod]

NicD said:

in your child like view perhaps.

his 'theme' is sensible immigration and straight talking

what is wrong with you idiot haters?

Calm down, you silly little man.

[Zod]

mrpurple said:

Nige does have the look of Russell Crowe about him

"The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the Senate, it's the sand of the Colosseum. He'll bring them death and they will love him for it." -Gracchus, on Maximus

Senator Gracchus supports what Maximus is doing in the gladiatorial arena. His quote shows a critical truth about many societies: the true representatives are not the politicians or other elite, but the peasants who compose the majority of the population. If Maximus could manage to sway the opinions of the people through his actions and charisma in the arena, they would provide a powerful collective force for the Roman army to contend with if necessary.

http://voices.yahoo.com/gladiator-quotes-why-movie...

Were you the comedian who compared Farage with Churchill the other day?

[Esseesse]

AJS- said:

I'm not sure that is such a big problem for them. I was one of the weirdos who did support UKIP from my early 20s and I think there's something in the old cliche that if you're not a liberal when you're 20 you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative when you're 40 you have no brain. In my mid 30s I find a lot more people of my age who I generally agree with. I suspect it represents more the idealism of youth than a generational change. I suspect we'll see the same pattern in another 10 years.

Is UKIP not more liberal than the authoritarian 3 main parties?

[longblackcoat]

Esseesse said:

Is UKIP not more liberal than the authoritarian 3 main parties?

Try asking a gay couple who want to get married.

[Zod]

longblackcoat said:

Esseesse said:

Is UKIP not more liberal than the authoritarian 3 main parties?

Try asking a gay couple who want to get married.

You missed the update - UKIP issued a statement to PinkNews on the 18th of March to say that it was reviewing its opposition to gay marriage. It then withdrew that statement, saying it had issued it by mistake . Then on the 29th of March, when pressed repeatedly in an interview on LBC, Farage avoided answering the question of whether he and the party are for or against gay marriage by saying that he could not support gay marriage while the UK is in the EU because a church refusing to carry out a gay marriage could be sued in the ECHR. He wouldn't even say whether he would support gay marriage if the UK was no longer subject to the ECHR.

He is a coward. He won't say he supports gay marriage for fear of alienating his party's supporters, nor will he say he is against gay marriage for fear of allowing his party to be portrayed as bigoted.

[FiF]

But the majority of both Tory and UKIP support gay marriage, it's another non-issue in reality.

[Zod]

FiF said:

But the majority of both Tory and UKIP support gay marriage, it's another non-issue in reality.

If that's true, then why can't Farage come out and support it?

[FiF]

Only a recent survey.

69% of public support.
Tories a few% behind that.
UKIP a few% behind Tories .
Especially if you take account of experimental error allowances.

Not a massive majority for UKIP admittedly but nevertheless a clearish majority.

Which is a first for both parties and the country as a whole aiui. Times are changing.

As for why he doesn't say it you will have to ask him I am just commenting from the gallery as it were. The sort of thing that Nick Robinson should be doing if he weren't a bit of a wart.

[MOTORVATOR]

Zod said:

FiF said:

But the majority of both Tory and UKIP support gay marriage, it's another non-issue in reality.

If that's true, then why can't Farage come out and support it?

Possibly because he has the conviction to stand behind his own opinions rather than towing a line on a non issue just to suit you?

I admire people like that rather than those that tell you what you want to hear in order to secure a vote regardless of their own beliefs.

[Scuffers]

Zod said:

FiF said:

But the majority of both Tory and UKIP support gay marriage, it's another non-issue in reality.

If that's true, then why can't Farage come out and support it?

have you been living under a rock?

he must have covered this at least a dozen times on TV by now, mostly still on youtube too.

what do you want him to do? come and personally explain it to you?

[Digga]

After the first Farage vs. Clegg live TV debate thumping, it was pretty clear that the meeja types were quite exercised about the gay marriage issue, whereas it was not a major concern of the voters/viewers and, in any even, was actually quite logically argued IMHO that all Farage opposed was forcing any religious place of worship - church, temple, mosque, etc. - to conduct a ceremony that was counter to it's own religious beliefs. I think that is fair enough and in no way an attack on civil partnership or gay relations.

Going back to my first point, the issue seems more relevant in the eyes of the hip, trendy, and metro types (and perhaps also the types who are perennially offended or outraged on behalf of other minorities) than it does to the majority.

[Zod]

MOTORVATOR said:

Possibly because he has the conviction to stand behind his own opinions rather than towing a line on a non issue just to suit you?

I admire people like that rather than those that tell you what you want to hear in order to secure a vote regardless of their own beliefs.

but that's the whole problem; he is too much of a coward to tell us his opinion!

[Zod]

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

FiF said:

But the majority of both Tory and UKIP support gay marriage, it's another non-issue in reality.

If that's true, then why can't Farage come out and support it?

have you been living under a rock?

he must have covered this at least a dozen times on TV by now, mostly still on youtube too.

what do you want him to do? come and personally explain it to you?

Er, you need to look at UKIP's confused recent utterances on the subject,as set out in my post earlier this afternoon.