Dodging train fare
Discussion
santona1937 said:
I do like the fact that folks "have no sympathy for the train companies".
You are not forced to take the train, they can charge what they like for fares, parking etc.
They are probably not charging enough to make a really decent profit.
You just don't understand. When "other" people do this they are selfish chavvy scrotes. When "I" do it I'm righting a moral wrong / fighting an unjust tyrannical system / sticking up for the "little guy". You are not forced to take the train, they can charge what they like for fares, parking etc.
They are probably not charging enough to make a really decent profit.
Sometime the "system" does appear to be heavy handed and obstructive but just because you spend £200/week at waitrose doesn't make it OK to shoplift occasionally because the queues are too long.
FiF said:
When it was BR the total subsidy was about 2 billion. Today it is 6 billion per year. So a trebling in real terms.
The poor lambs struggling to make profits.
Troll on.
So that's about £3.2bn in today's money. So now there is less than double the subsidy that there was at the time of privatisation. In return for that:The poor lambs struggling to make profits.
Troll on.
Southern, Essex Thameside, Transpennine Express, Virgin and Crosscountry have had their entire fleets replaced with new trains.
Chiltern, East Midland Trains, Southeastern, South West Trains and Scotrail have had large portions of their fleets replaced with new trains and the majority of what remains has been refurbished.
First Great Western, Capital Connect, Greater Anglia and Arriva Trains Wales have had some new stock and refurbished the majority of what remained.
The West Coast Main Line was pretty much completely rebuilt; most routes have had their power supplies and signals completely replaced to allow more trains to run; the Midland Main Line and Chiltern Main Line have recently been significantly re-engineered; the MML; Great Western Mainline, Cross Country Route; Transpennine route; Edinburgh - Glasgow and Welsh Valley lines are all being electrified and the entire network in the North is being upgraded as part of Northern Hub.
The number of services now is way in excess of what it was under BR routes that used to be a few trains a day are now a regular clockface service. That means considerable extra wear and tear on the infrastrucutre, so that has to be maintained, and it must be maintained to a higher standard than it was by BR.
All of this costs money.
Countdown said:
But, now that it's privatised, shouldn't it be shareholders financing the investment?
Ultimately it has to come from the ticket box. Shareholders aren't going to invest money that they will not get back. For the railways to actually cover their costs without subsidy, fares would have to double and passengers can't afford that. Given how important the railways are to the economy and the country as a whole, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the Government subsidises them.If I were to hazard a guess, I'd imagine that removing the subsidy from the railways and pricing the majority of users off it would cause considerably more than £6bn of damage to the economy. How the hell would anyone commute in to cities to work? London in particular would be cut off from the people who work there. It would be a catastrophe.
valiant said:
Caught without a ticket, were we?
One of my very last days at college, I went for two years and paid every single time.. Then a month or so before I finished college they changed the station, so there wasnt anybody working at the kiosk to buy a ticket from and no machine at the station.. anyways I got on the train like I usually did and tried to find a guard to get a ticket from, there was no guard on the train, I got off the train at my stop and got stopped asked where my ticket was I told the guy about no guard, machine or anybody at the kiosk and he told me its my fault and I shouldnt travel without a ticket.. So they fined me £20, which I appealed as it wasnt my fault, anyways they rejected it and I had to pay up. But if they f
king bothered checking they would of seen me and three other people who all got on and off at the same station all had the same story, maybe just maybe they would of seen it wasnt our fking fault we had nowhere to get a ticket from. chrisispringles said:
FiF said:
When it was BR the total subsidy was about 2 billion. Today it is 6 billion per year. So a trebling in real terms.
The poor lambs struggling to make profits.
Troll on.
So that's about £3.2bn in today's money. So now there is less than double the subsidy that there was at the time of privatisation. In return for that:The poor lambs struggling to make profits.
Troll on.
Southern, Essex Thameside, Transpennine Express, Virgin and Crosscountry have had their entire fleets replaced with new trains.
Chiltern, East Midland Trains, Southeastern, South West Trains and Scotrail have had large portions of their fleets replaced with new trains and the majority of what remains has been refurbished.
First Great Western, Capital Connect, Greater Anglia and Arriva Trains Wales have had some new stock and refurbished the majority of what remained.
The West Coast Main Line was pretty much completely rebuilt; most routes have had their power supplies and signals completely replaced to allow more trains to run; the Midland Main Line and Chiltern Main Line have recently been significantly re-engineered; the MML; Great Western Mainline, Cross Country Route; Transpennine route; Edinburgh - Glasgow and Welsh Valley lines are all being electrified and the entire network in the North is being upgraded as part of Northern Hub.
The number of services now is way in excess of what it was under BR routes that used to be a few trains a day are now a regular clockface service. That means considerable extra wear and tear on the infrastrucutre, so that has to be maintained, and it must be maintained to a higher standard than it was by BR.
All of this costs money.
Yes it all costs money. Is it value for money when we still have the highest fares in Europe. When there is some evidence that the foreign owners of some of our train operators eg SNCF, DBand NS are using profits generated Iin Uk to cross subsidise fares in other countries.
Mugs we are.
FiF said:
Actually the 2 billion had already taken account of inflation into today's money. So it is a trebling of subsidy.
Yes it all costs money. Is it value for money when we still have the highest fares in Europe. When there is some evidence that the foreign owners of some of our train operators eg SNCF, DBand NS are using profits generated Iin Uk to cross subsidise fares in other countries.
Mugs we are.
Our fares are higher because our network is nowhere near as heavily subsidised as those on the continentYes it all costs money. Is it value for money when we still have the highest fares in Europe. When there is some evidence that the foreign owners of some of our train operators eg SNCF, DBand NS are using profits generated Iin Uk to cross subsidise fares in other countries.
Mugs we are.
SNCF provides a great service here in France. Cheap (if you book a ways in advance 25 euros Med to Paris)
It is not expensive even without booking in advance .
somewhere in the region of 850 TGV trains a day.
The commuter trains do suffer from under investment but the next 5-10 years the commuter rail will get a massive cash injection.
And it is State Owned. .
It is not expensive even without booking in advance .
somewhere in the region of 850 TGV trains a day.
The commuter trains do suffer from under investment but the next 5-10 years the commuter rail will get a massive cash injection.
And it is State Owned. .
Puggit said:
I don't support chavvy scrote-ish behaviour in any from but the DM link seems particularly bile-filled, even for the DM.OK, he was a tit, and he's been punished (some might say very severely given the nature of his offence), but the DM seems to be revelling in the fact that a very rich Porsche driver has been shafted.
Countdown said:
Puggit said:
I don't support chavvy scrote-ish behaviour in any from but the DM link seems particularly bile-filled, even for the DM.OK, he was a tit, and he's been punished (some might say very severely given the nature of his offence), but the DM seems to be revelling in the fact that a very rich Porsche driver has been shafted.
"Someone-who-cares, London, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
His actions show a lack of probity that make him IDEAL for a life in the City. Wealthy and yet lacking any morals."
Surely it's not his fault?
If Labour had clamped down, the regulators were given some teeth or Blair hadn't murdered 3 billion this wouldn't have happened.
His actions show a lack of probity that make him IDEAL for a life in the City. Wealthy and yet lacking any morals."
Surely it's not his fault?
If Labour had clamped down, the regulators were given some teeth or Blair hadn't murdered 3 billion this wouldn't have happened.
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