Dodging train fare

Author
Discussion

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
EskimoArapaho said:
You are right about the DM, but was he punished? I thought he just offered to pay up instead of facing a trial?

Which was an option unavailable to me or many millions of other fare-dodgers in London. I can't recall now, but my punishment was a penalty perhaps 10x the cost of the dodged fare. By far dodger, I mean someone who absent-mindedly strolled straight through the station at Finchley Central instead of getting the ticket. Once. And who went straight to the ticket wallah to explain. To be told 'Rules are rules; cough up the penalty now'.

Had he been penalised according to his intent and the frequency of offending, you'd have a point. But he wasn't. And he should be.
Sot on: he wasn't punished of course by having to pay back the fare he had avoided.
But but but

21.50 fare
5 days a week
46 working weeks a year
5 years

21.5 * 5 * 46 * 5 = 24,725.

Never been any mention of fiddling the homeward trip.

So the 43k comes from? 5 years of penalty fares perhaps?

KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
I think he paid back from numbers based on single fares?

If so he's being significantly punished as he'd obviously have bought a season ticket had he been paying in the first place.

Guerrero

7 posts

117 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
EskimoArapaho said:
You are right about the DM, but was he punished? I thought he just offered to pay up instead of facing a trial?
It is common for the rail companies to offer not to prosecute if you agree to "meet their costs". If it goes to prosecution they get nothing, but if you pay the bribe they are up on the deal.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Monday 4th August 2014
quotequote all
FiF said:
But but but

21.50 fare
5 days a week
46 working weeks a year
5 years

21.5 * 5 * 46 * 5 = 24,725.

Never been any mention of fiddling the homeward trip.

So the 43k comes from? 5 years of penalty fares perhaps?
Customs and Excise use a similar method of calculation. They charge for the time and trouble of the investigation, plus, if payment has been avoided, then the sum plus interest.

For instance, if a car is involved then they will confiscate the car, store it until the matter is resolved, sell it (often), charge the person the sum they avoided, plus investigation fees, plus storage plus the auctioneer fees. I asked them why the didn't just take what they wanted and I was told they were limited by law. So the person who, for instance, tells lies and says that the car they are buying is not subject to VAT and then keeps it in this country will only be hit by the outstanding fee, with interest, and costs.

Martin 480 Turbo

601 posts

186 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Why is he unsuitable for a senior job in the city?

As far as I understand this he used to pay his daily fares until 2008
But somehow found out,that paying the fine at checkout was way cheaper.
How does that make him unsuitable for a senior job in the city? Isn't
that kind of loopholing part of his expected professional behavior?

Him getting cought due to not using a fresh oyster card every now and
then and not being able to stay tight lipped might have been more of a
letdown to his piers. As much as his very low
key appearance.

I'd bet he didn't even invent that "scheme" just blew out of proportion
what the neighbours boys had shown him and now he ruined it for every one
traveling from that station.

valiant

10,064 posts

159 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Martin 480 Turbo said:
Why is he unsuitable for a senior job in the city?

As far as I understand this he used to pay his daily fares until 2008
But somehow found out,that paying the fine at checkout was way cheaper.
How does that make him unsuitable for a senior job in the city? Isn't
that kind of loopholing part of his expected professional behavior?

Him getting cought due to not using a fresh oyster card every now and
then and not being able to stay tight lipped might have been more of a
letdown to his piers. As much as his very low
key appearance.

I'd bet he didn't even invent that "scheme" just blew out of proportion
what the neighbours boys had shown him and now he ruined it for every one
traveling from that station.
He wasn't paying a fine at checkout, he was paying the maximum fare for failing to tap in/out properly within the TfL ticketing area ignoring his fare to SouthEastern or whatever TOC he was using.

Max Tfl fare was £7.20 instead of the £21odd he should have paid. Penalty fare would be much more than this. It isn't loopholing, it's fare evasion pure and simple.

By you're last paragraph, are you saying it's ok to avoid your fare?

basherX

2,463 posts

160 months

Monday 11th August 2014
quotequote all
Stonegate is my local station. I guess they started off saying they were going to charge him the full peak return fare (£39.60) for 5 years at 250ish working days without any offset for the Oyster payments he had made. And he accepted.

Never seen the chap and still unsure how he managed it- I had my ticket checked most days when I was travelling that way. Five years is a long time to hide in the loo. As someone posted earlier my guess is he viewed this as an arb opportunity with almost zero marginal cost to the provider or his fellow passengers so ripe for a win.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Fare-dodging banker banned from City.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30475232

From FCA,
"...the Authority has concluded that it is both necessary and appropriate to prohibit Mr Burrows from performing any function in relation to any regulated activity carried on by any authorised person, exempt person or person to whom as a result of Part 20 of the Act the general prohibition
does not apply, to secure an appropriate degree of protection for consumers and to protect and enhance the integrity of the UK financial system."

User33678888

1,141 posts

136 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
I'm glad there were some real consequences for him. It was not a crime of necessity, but of greed. It was planned and committed virtually daily for a number of years. We all have to know where to draw the line.

basherX

2,463 posts

160 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
I still can't fathom how he dodged the ticket inspectors for that long. It's rare for them not to be checking on that journey, as I posted above.

Fittster

20,120 posts

212 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Seems a silly way to throw a career away.

I've always wondered what motivates people on very large salaries to risk their careers for a small expenses fiddle.

jakesmith

9,461 posts

170 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Fittster said:
Seems a silly way to throw a career away.

I've always wondered what motivates people on very large salaries to risk their careers for a small expenses fiddle.
I guess he'll be wondering about that probably for the rest of his life. He deserves it but for some reason I still feel sorry for him, he probably didn't realise how great the consequences could be.

greygoose

8,224 posts

194 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
Fittster said:
Seems a silly way to throw a career away.

I've always wondered what motivates people on very large salaries to risk their careers for a small expenses fiddle.
It does seem odd, I guess some people can't help themselves. When I joined my first proper job we were given the advice that if you are going to be corrupt make sure it is for huge sums of money as you may need it for the rest of your life!

AyBee

10,522 posts

201 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
I'm staggered at those consequences given that it had nothing to do with his professional life and that there are people in the city committing far worse crimes without punishment.

AyBee

10,522 posts

201 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
FiF said:
But but but

21.50 fare
5 days a week
46 working weeks a year
5 years

21.5 * 5 * 46 * 5 = 24,725.

Never been any mention of fiddling the homeward trip.

So the 43k comes from? 5 years of penalty fares perhaps?
Like most people, he went to and from work wink

21.50 x 2 x 5 x 46 x 5 = 49,450

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
AyBee said:
I'm staggered at those consequences given that it had nothing to do with his professional life and that there are people in the city committing far worse crimes without punishment.
Such as?

AyBee

10,522 posts

201 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
AyBee said:
I'm staggered at those consequences given that it had nothing to do with his professional life and that there are people in the city committing far worse crimes without punishment.
Such as?
I'm unable to say I'm afraid.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
AyBee said:
I'm unable to say I'm afraid.
Strange.

KFC

3,687 posts

129 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
AyBee said:
I'm staggered at those consequences given that it had nothing to do with his professional life and that there are people in the city committing far worse crimes without punishment.
Were those crimes for dishonesty?

I think it would be more appropriate to have someone in charge of a financial institution that had say been jailed for getting in a fight in a bar, than someone who deliberately carried out a fraud over months/years.

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Monday 15th December 2014
quotequote all
AyBee said:
sidicks said:
AyBee said:
I'm staggered at those consequences given that it had nothing to do with his professional life and that there are people in the city committing far worse crimes without punishment.
Such as?
I'm unable to say I'm afraid.
you seem to be saying these 'worse crimes' have not yet been uncovered, or are they being shielded?