Terrible ferry tragedy off South Korea

[dudleybloke]

crazy about cars said:

Shouldn't the captain be the last person leaving a sinking vessel?

not unless they eat pasta or dogs it seems.

[McWigglebum4th]

XJ Flyer said:

So in this case you're saying that you'd have preferred to take your chances by staying inside the ship,than wait outside on deck until it's obvious that it's going over in which case it's time to jump into those 'thousands of miles of death'.As for me I've been travelling on ships regularly since the 1970's including trans Atlantic ironically three of which were the Juliana which became the Moby Prince,the Herald,and the Boccaccio.In all cases I can guarantee that I wouldn't be waiting inside on a burning or sinking ship for a crew member to tell me to get out.

You are the expert

I'm just the idiot that worked on ships for 20 years.

But this idiot would stay with the ship as long as posible.


But as an expert passneger i am sure you know where the emergency control center is and what all those pretty lights and buttons mean and do.

[WinstonWolf]

McWigglebum4th said:

XJ Flyer said:

So in this case you're saying that you'd have preferred to take your chances by staying inside the ship,than wait outside on deck until it's obvious that it's going over in which case it's time to jump into those 'thousands of miles of death'.As for me I've been travelling on ships regularly since the 1970's including trans Atlantic ironically three of which were the Juliana which became the Moby Prince,the Herald,and the Boccaccio.In all cases I can guarantee that I wouldn't be waiting inside on a burning or sinking ship for a crew member to tell me to get out.

You are the expert

I'm just the idiot that worked on ships for 20 years.

But this idiot would stay with the ship as long as posible

My self preservation instincts would have me as close to an exit onto the deck as possible. They would have to restrain me to keep me below deck.

[dudleybloke]

no point obeying the rules if those in charge dont obey them too.

[Ayahuasca]

Iirc the Herald of Free Enterprise and the Estonia survivors were the ones who got out fast and avoided being trapped.

[redtwin]

WinstonWolf said:

My self preservation instincts would have me as close to an exit onto the deck as possible. They would have to restrain me to keep me below deck.

My thoughts exactly.

The only (and last) time I have a been on a ship, the muster station was up on deck next to our assigned lifeboat. We all had to actually don life jackets and gather there during the drill before leaving port, it wasn't just a video we watched or a placard on the cabin door.

This nonsense about staying in your cabin in the depths of the ship just doesn't make any sense.

[dudleybloke]

i would rather be lost at sea in a small boat than at the bottom of the sea in a large boat.

[anonymous-user]

when we had an minor earthquake i was out the door from sleep in 3 seconds, i would never hang around under a table from nuclear war, or sitting singing Cumbaya holding my rosary beads, i believe quick actions pay dividends.

[McWigglebum4th]

WinstonWolf said:

McWigglebum4th said:

XJ Flyer said:

So in this case you're saying that you'd have preferred to take your chances by staying inside the ship,than wait outside on deck until it's obvious that it's going over in which case it's time to jump into those 'thousands of miles of death'.As for me I've been travelling on ships regularly since the 1970's including trans Atlantic ironically three of which were the Juliana which became the Moby Prince,the Herald,and the Boccaccio.In all cases I can guarantee that I wouldn't be waiting inside on a burning or sinking ship for a crew member to tell me to get out.

You are the expert

I'm just the idiot that worked on ships for 20 years.

But this idiot would stay with the ship as long as posible

My self preservation instincts would have me as close to an exit onto the deck as possible. They would have to restrain me to keep me below deck.

Which is strangely enough where the muster stations are close to an exit and the same deck as the lifeboats

And it is also on modern vessels that have big feck off fans to keep them clear of smoke and big feck off fire doors.

[XJ Flyer]

McWigglebum4th said:

XJ Flyer said:

So in this case you're saying that you'd have preferred to take your chances by staying inside the ship,than wait outside on deck until it's obvious that it's going over in which case it's time to jump into those 'thousands of miles of death'.As for me I've been travelling on ships regularly since the 1970's including trans Atlantic ironically three of which were the Juliana which became the Moby Prince,the Herald,and the Boccaccio.In all cases I can guarantee that I wouldn't be waiting inside on a burning or sinking ship for a crew member to tell me to get out.

You are the expert

I'm just the idiot that worked on ships for 20 years.

But this idiot would stay with the ship as long as posible.


But as an expert passneger i am sure you know where the emergency control center is and what all those pretty lights and buttons mean and do.

I didn't say don't stay with the ship wherever possible I said it's better to be out on deck not below decks and/or inside.In order to have more chance to deal with escaping from any possibilities like an uncontrollable fast spreading fire or a ship that suddenly goes from a non sinking situation to a roll over or fast sinking event type one.In which case that worst case idea of jumping into the water in the hope of rescue in whatever form looks a lot more attractive than staying inside waiting.In all cases there's more to lose by staying inside than there is to gain by getting out and standing by for any eventuality on deck.

[WinstonWolf]

The Spruce goose said:

when we had an minor earthquake i was out the door from sleep in 3 seconds, i would never hang around under a table from nuclear war, or sitting singing Cumbaya holding my rosary beads, i believe quick actions pay dividends.

I think that's true in every dangerous situation, I would imagine those who sit around waiting for guidance are the ones who don't make it.

[Beati Dogu]

High school kids, so ages 15-18.

Seems hard to imagine a bunch of British kids of the same age would just sit there playing with their mobile phones while the ship is obviously sinking, because some authority figure said so.

[Foppo]

Beati Dogu said:

High school kids, so ages 15-18.

Seems hard to imagine a bunch of British kids of the same age would just sit there playing with their mobile phones while the ship is obviously sinking, because some authority figure said so.

It is never that obvious when a ship is sinking.They the crew had time to help the passengers to get off the sinking ship.Not enough lifeboats lowered and no guidance by the looks of it.British or any other Nationality kids might have done the same.

[hidetheelephants]

Beati Dogu said:

Roll-On, Roll-Over as they're known.

We were on a cross channel ferry in the 80s when it stopped to rescue a family from a yacht that was in difficulty. Even as a kid I remember being surprised by just how long it took them to prepare and lower a lifeboat down the side of the ship. It was daylight, the ship vertical, the weather clear and the sea calm as well.

Lowering boats on cables is about the most dangerous activity a sailor can do other than enclosed space entry; it kills sailors every year, boats falling off duff quick release hooks, rusted or fatigued cables snapping, duff limit sensors allowing cables to be snapped as winches don't switch off, or just plain human error releasing things when they shouldn't be released. Like every professional seafarer I'm qualified in lifeboats so I've practised doing it, but it's still bloody dangerous and you don't rush it even if it's calm.

McWigglebum4th said:

Which is strangely enough where the muster stations are close to an exit and the same deck as the lifeboats

And it is also on modern vessels that have big feck off fans to keep them clear of smoke and big feck off fire doors.

Which is why I cannot fathom why these kids are dead; they should have been at the muster stations in their life jackets, ready to either embark lifeboats, liferafts or do a Tom Daley if the ship's attitude puts launching LSA off the menu.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Friday 18th April 19:00

[CTO]

C4 news reporting now that the teacher in charge/lead guide has been found hanged in woods having left a suicide note.

Captain is in custody.

[Chim]

Whole thing is heartbreaking, just read about the school head, obviously could not live with what had happened to his charges. Can not even begin to imagine the hell that these people are in.

The crew have a LOT of questions to answer here.

[Godalmighty83]

crazy about cars said:

Shouldn't the captain be the last person leaving a sinking vessel?

It's the traditional 'cliche' but not absolutely true. A captain is expected to make every possible effort to ensure the safety of his crew and passengers but is not expected to unnecessarily endanger himself trying to ensure that.

In military circles the captain going down with the ship is heavily discouraged as despite his responsibilities a captain is still a person with a right to self preservation and also has a duty to the authorities to answer for or explain the events that occurred.

Hit by a pack of ship killers? Signal the abandon ship, make sure the SOS messages are sent and then get your ass off. Ship slowly sinking through a unstoppable leak? Take the time to ensure every person on board has been located and organise a orderly evacuation then get your ass off.

This guy made the mistakes much earlier, *apparently* left an inexperienced crewmmen in control and then ordered everyone to stay in there cabins, at the speed at which those commercial ferries can roll that was a death sentence. The speed of which he got off the ship isn't that much of an issue, by that point the vessel was already too far gone to do anything about or help anyone else on board. His decisions before that point are what will hang him.

[anonymous-user]

dudleybloke said:

crazy about cars said:

Shouldn't the captain be the last person leaving a sinking vessel?

not unless they eat pasta or dogs it seems.

A true NPE classic! Casual "diss the foreigners" generalisation combined with semi-literacy in one splendid sentence (a sentence that with hapless irony means the opposite of what its author apparently intended). I give it 9.5.

[McWigglebum4th]

Breadvan72 said:

A true NPE classic! Casual "diss the foreigners" generalisation combined with semi-literacy in one splendid sentence (a sentence that with hapless irony means the opposite of what its author apparently intended). I give it 9.5.

Have you blamed UKIP voters yet?

[anonymous-user]

Yes, I have unquestionably authentic photographic proof of Nige sawing a big round hole in the bottom of the boat whilst pocketing bundles of looted cash and snorting primo Columbian off Kate Middleton's bumcrack. Cue 97 pages of "It's just an Establishment Smear".