The rich - poor gap
Discussion
How do people define 'struggle'?
Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
avinalarf said:
...
Some very wealthy people e.g.Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are giving away lots of wealth to help others,not perhaps the answer but at least they are trying.
And do you think they would be doing that had they been limited to earning 250k per annum? Some very wealthy people e.g.Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are giving away lots of wealth to help others,not perhaps the answer but at least they are trying.
I think you are taking your forum handle literally
Siscar said:
How do people define 'struggle'?
Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
How about having to sell a car despite living in a semi-rural community with a bus every hour?Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
Having to sell the TV?
Having to depend on food parcels from parents?
Only two room heated as these were the ones the kids frequented?
Going into the year with 6-month's salary and being called to see the bank manager, despite being still in credit, as he anticipated problems?
How about having to walk four miles, with two kids, to shop?
No new clothes for two years?
But the worst:
Hoping that there would be no additional problems that would require funding? This would include a child being so ill that the mother could not take her to work, that's cleaning. Losing a day's pay would be a disaster.
That's a struggle. In other words having to watch every penny, costing every item of food, going without so your kids don't have to. It still goes on.
I think I might have detected a slight bit of a patronising attitude in your post. Not everybody gets into problems through inappropriate spending.
Further, people not having to sleep on the streets . . . do some research, look around you, see what the alternatives are. You have no idea and you should be relieved that you have been able to avoid reality for so long.
You should also be grateful to the Sally Ann. The efforts of their staff ensure that those whom no one else give a f
k about can be hidden from the likes of us. Dr Jekyll said:
No, negative growth simply means less wealth is being created than in the previous year. Even if we are back to the levels of wealth creation of 10 years ago that's better than communism ever managed.
Strangely, both 'systems' by and large have the same outcome if left for too long - a largely parasitical 'elite' group covering each others backs and slowly making themselves untouchable from the public at large.It's called 'human nature'.
900T-R said:
Strangely, both 'systems' by and large have the same outcome if left for too long - a largely parasitical 'elite' group covering each others backs and slowly making themselves untouchable from the public at large.
It's called 'human nature'.
Put both systems side by side and what you end up with is the communist country setting up machine guns on the border to stop people getting out, while the only border problem the capitalist country has is with the number trying to get in.It's called 'human nature'.
Siscar said:
How do people define 'struggle'?
Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
In order to sustain our economy we have encouraged an explosion in a debt driven consumer society.Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
The financial system encouraged debt by offering reckless loans and "easy" credit,both to companies and individuals.
There are no easy answers and any solutions ideally need to be agreed on a global basis.
As we have discussed rich and poor are relative terms but I think we all understand that for example in London those earning less than £15K p.a. are disadvantaged and "struggle".
The basic requirements of a rented property,food, fares,council tax etc. have inflated greatly whilst wages have stagnated.
Young people,setting out in life,might reasonably have an expectation that if they work hard and do the "right" thing by contributing to the society in which they live and paying taxes,they will prosper.
Most people do not spend their lives in envy of the "rich",what they do is aspire to a "better life " achieved by working hard and saving for the future.
These aspirations are crushed when fortunes are made built on the back of "dodgy dealings" by corporations that walk away leaving "them" to pick up the pieces.
avinalarf said:
Siscar said:
How do people define 'struggle'?
Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
In order to sustain our economy we have encouraged an explosion in a debt driven consumer society.Clearly most people can't afford to buy whatever they want, but that's not struggling. Clearly people can have problems if they spend what they have inappropriately, but that's self imposed.
Obviously sleeping on the street able to afford food, that would be struggling, but this isn't a country where you need to do that.
So what is 'struggling'?
The financial system encouraged debt by offering reckless loans and "easy" credit,both to companies and individuals.
There are no easy answers and any solutions ideally need to be agreed on a global basis.
As we have discussed rich and poor are relative terms but I think we all understand that for example in London those earning less than £15K p.a. are disadvantaged and "struggle".
The basic requirements of a rented property,food, fares,council tax etc. have inflated greatly whilst wages have stagnated.
Young people,setting out in life,might reasonably have an expectation that if they work hard and do the "right" thing by contributing to the society in which they live and paying taxes,they will prosper.
Most people do not spend their lives in envy of the "rich",what they do is aspire to a "better life " achieved by working hard and saving for the future.
These aspirations are crushed when fortunes are made built on the back of "dodgy dealings" by corporations that walk away leaving "them" to pick up the pieces.
Murph7355 said:
avinalarf said:
...
Some very wealthy people e.g.Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are giving away lots of wealth to help others,not perhaps the answer but at least they are trying.
And do you think they would be doing that had they been limited to earning 250k per annum? Some very wealthy people e.g.Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are giving away lots of wealth to help others,not perhaps the answer but at least they are trying.
I think you are taking your forum handle literally
I was suggesting that some mega wealthy realise that in a "just" society a redistribution of wealth is beneficial to that society as a whole.
We are in danger of creating a society of "have nots" and "have a lots",this is not healthy for either party.
avinalarf said:
Murph7355 said:
avinalarf said:
...
Some very wealthy people e.g.Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are giving away lots of wealth to help others,not perhaps the answer but at least they are trying.
And do you think they would be doing that had they been limited to earning 250k per annum? Some very wealthy people e.g.Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are giving away lots of wealth to help others,not perhaps the answer but at least they are trying.
I think you are taking your forum handle literally
I was suggesting that some mega wealthy realise that in a "just" society a redistribution of wealth is beneficial to that society as a whole.
avinalarf said:
We are in danger of creating a society of "have nots" and "have a lots",this is not healthy for either party.
Have what and not have what? Lots of people have lots of things others lack. Always have and always will, so it's not something to be created as it's already with us and it's called "normal". Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
santona1937 said:
Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
You're full of joy.Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
Edited by Zoobeef on Friday 18th April 11:57
Zoobeef said:
santona1937 said:
Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
Your full of joy.Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
you should see my full of misery economic plans
santona1937 said:
Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
Stand back and observe whilst the country descends into economic collapse.....Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
Rovinghawk said:
When I've been on a roof at night in the pissing rain due to a leak, when I've given up a weekend break to fix an electrical problem that wouldn't wait, when I've juggled finances to make it work, when I've spent hours on bank paperwork & legal documents, your comment about little effort rings a bit hollow.
If you think it's easy then step up & do it.
I've done that for my own house, didn't get paid for it either If you think it's easy then step up & do it.
"Poor" is always a relative term. The definition that is widely accepted by economists is a financial status that excludes, to an unreasonable degree, an individual from participation in the normal activities and conduct of society. On this basis, next to no one in the UK is 'poor' albeit, their participation may be subsidised by the public purse. I am therefore unsure as to what problem any sort of Government mandated re-distribution of wealth would solve
santona1937 said:
Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
And watch me and others leave the country.Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
My company is gaining most of it's new business outside the UK, yet most - maybe 95% - of the people we employ are in the UK. We could build up our overseas offices rather than currently where we employ the minimum we need locally and do the work in the UK.
However it wouldn't be that hard to reverse and if the UK became the sort of place you are describing we would do that. Personally I don't particularly want to move abroad but I could and would under those circumstances.
Derek Smith said:
Stuff
So what kind of person are you describing? The mother in a family unit with a husband employed, maybe in work herself? Or the other extreme, a single mother with kids on benefits?In my opinion we need to build a society where working and contributing is rewarded whilst those in need due to circumstances outside their control are supported. What goes wrong is a society where working and contributing is not seen as the route to a better lifestyle for yourself. Unfortunately there is an element of that today where at the low income level the advantages of working are not that remarkable.
Penalising the rich is pointless and quite often counter productive. I started my business many years ago unashamedly because I wanted to be rich. If putting the work in and taking the risks didn't have the potential to make us rich why would we have bothered? We employ a lot of people today supporting customers around the world, why would we have created that if society would then penalise us for being rich?
why should there be any differing rates of income tax?
& even on a flat rate its 'unfair' (if we are going to use such loose concepts) to those earning more.
always intrigued by the mindset heavily present in those critical of the gap that those richer than them are lucky and those poorer are lazy while they themselves are hardworking
& even on a flat rate its 'unfair' (if we are going to use such loose concepts) to those earning more.
always intrigued by the mindset heavily present in those critical of the gap that those richer than them are lucky and those poorer are lazy while they themselves are hardworking
Siscar said:
santona1937 said:
Tax wealth not income. Include pensioners.
Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
And watch me and others leave the country.Tax the profit on the sale of primary residences.
Raise the upper tax limit to 75% ( taxing wealth not income)
Raise inheritance tax
Put all schools under state control
Bring in a proper and working system of technical education ( I worked on the development of Modern Apprenticeships and for a lot of industries they are a joke)
Mandate a CEO/ Floor worker maximum spread in industries that do not manufacture, such as finance.
Raise the minimum wage to a regionally based living wage.
Require that companies that use zero hours contracts pay a 10% of amount earned annual bonus to staff on such contracts.
Tax cars on mileage per annum.
Reverse the conditions for new house builds, so new developments need to be 75% affordable housing and 25% at whatever the developer feels they can charge.
Disallow benefits to those who have not paid a certain amount of NI with exemptions for those who are physically unable to work
Ban transfer pricing in international companies
Lower Corporation tax but require that directors of any company doing business in the UK are annually personally liable for losses incurred without limitation
Remove all benefits from anyone working more than 16 hours a week.
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