The rich - poor gap
Discussion
GT03ROB said:
TopOnePercent said:
Life isn't fair. There, I said it.
If we divided the nations wealth equally among us tomorrow, by 2015 we would again have "the rich" and we'd still have the poor. It may not be the same people that are rich, but it would be mostly the same people that are poor.
Get over the envy of others lives and make the best of your own.
Very true.If we divided the nations wealth equally among us tomorrow, by 2015 we would again have "the rich" and we'd still have the poor. It may not be the same people that are rich, but it would be mostly the same people that are poor.
Get over the envy of others lives and make the best of your own.
Where I'm employed, I earn around 250x what the tea boy earns, this is a rich poor gap. He smiles he's cheerful, he's polite. He's happy he has the opportunity to earn what he does. He does it becasue he's still better off than if he'd stayed at home. He gets paid what he does because there's billions on the planet that can do what he does, I get paid what I do because there maybe tens on the planet that can do what I do & are prepared to. It's an extreme case of supply & demand. But rich/poor is nothing more than supply & demand. Simple basic economics.
Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Dr Jekyll said:
avinalarf said:
You said "finding a solution is the problem".
I am offering one,not ideal I know and especially in our Golbal Marketplace.
Look Siscar ,I don't have all the answers but with respect you and others are not suggesting any.
I'm still not clear what problem you're supposed to be trying to solve.I am offering one,not ideal I know and especially in our Golbal Marketplace.
Look Siscar ,I don't have all the answers but with respect you and others are not suggesting any.
avinalarf said:
You said "finding a solution is the problem".
I am offering one,not ideal I know and especially in our Golbal Marketplace.
Look Siscar ,I don't have all the answers but with respect you and others are not suggesting any.
Well I'd say that any meddling in the market isn't a solution. Salary caps etc. do little more than try and distort things and cause other problems. I question whether there is a solution to be had, it's one of the features as you get older you start to realise that not everything has a solution.I am offering one,not ideal I know and especially in our Golbal Marketplace.
Look Siscar ,I don't have all the answers but with respect you and others are not suggesting any.
avinalarf said:
Got me wondering what you do Rob.
Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Where do you stand on sportsmen, musicians, actors and the like? Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Their rewards can be gargantuan.
I know nothing of football, and it may all be prawn sandwiches now, but it has always amused me that people who rail against fat cats see nothing wrong in their chosen overpriced illiterate thug pigskin chaser earning hundreds of thousands a week.
Ozzie Osmond said:
It is impossible to rely on the "market" to the exclusion of all other factors. It's well known that leads to one person/company having everything and everybody else getting fleeced.
It can do that, but it doesn't inevitably have to happen. The marketplace is a very unforgiving arbiter. Government intervention could be what you're alluding to, that can involve subsidies and we all remember the 70s or have read about what happened and we can all see the distortions and sheer lunacy in greenonomics, if we're prepared to look without the blinkers of faith or ideology that is.Ozzie Osmond said:
The real question is "How can society value a day's work by MrX at 10,000 times the value of a day's work by My Y?".
The marketplace values can be like that, society's values depend on who the unelected representative of society happens to be that answers for everyone else 
Because the chicken and egg situation doesn't apply to business set-ups, growth and employment, and taking an earlier example, those 1000 jobs paying £15k would not exist without the business start-up and continued stewardship. Without the creativity and skills and well-judged risk-taking there would be £1.5m less wages being paid. In the same context, finding one person to be good enough at what they do to occupy a £15k role will be a doddle compared to finding the same set of skills and attributes as were needed to set up and grow the business. If it were not so any Tom, Deb or Harriet would be ploughing their pocket money (or making a persuasive case for business loan) into start-ups doomed to succeed and there'd be a multi-milionaire in every other house in every UK town.
Justayellowbadge said:
avinalarf said:
Got me wondering what you do Rob.
Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Where do you stand on sportsmen, musicians, actors and the like? Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Their rewards can be gargantuan.
I know nothing of football, and it may all be prawn sandwiches now, but it has always amused me that people who rail against fat cats see nothing wrong in their chosen overpriced illiterate thug pigskin chaser earning hundreds of thousands a week.
The World would be a better place without Coldplay !
avinalarf said:
Got me wondering what you do Rob.
Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Fair comment. But ultimately the tea boy & me are here for the same reason, as are the other 70,000 on the job, it's financially worth our while. It's worth his while to pack up, leave his family & friends in Bangladesh, come here & earn multiples of what he would at home. It's worth my while to do the same. This is simple economics we both get significant benefits. We are both happy with our deals. If the world were a more equal place he gap would not be as great..... but it's not, never has been, never will be.Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
In terms of what I do? I manage the design & construction of oil/gas/petrochems mega-projects generally in the Middle East. And my coffee making skill are crap! If I had to compete with the tea boy, I'd be on the next flight to Dhaka.
avinalarf said:
Dr Jekyll said:
avinalarf said:
You said "finding a solution is the problem".
I am offering one,not ideal I know and especially in our Golbal Marketplace.
Look Siscar ,I don't have all the answers but with respect you and others are not suggesting any.
I'm still not clear what problem you're supposed to be trying to solve.I am offering one,not ideal I know and especially in our Golbal Marketplace.
Look Siscar ,I don't have all the answers but with respect you and others are not suggesting any.
iphonedyou said:
Zoobeef said:
But its not a problem to be solved.
That was my understanding, too. I don't think the gap itself is a problem as such, and even if it were, not one that requires solving.If you want a meritocratic society and I think its hard to argue against, logically it makes far more sense to allow people to keep more of their earned income to accumulate wealth. I don't see why the burden of taxes on earned income can't be shifted from life to death; The majority of us will earn far more than we will inherit... IHT is emotive because of the way it is setup; taxing the already taxed estates of the dead. So Abolish IHT/death tax entirely and simply make tax payable on inheritance and gifts by the recipient as regular income.
Hypothetical world aside, I have a 1 year old daughter and I'll do everything I can to make sure the government doesn't get a damn penny, ever!
Hypothetical world aside, I have a 1 year old daughter and I'll do everything I can to make sure the government doesn't get a damn penny, ever!
turbobloke said:
If people make bad life decisions they should pay for it not everyone else..
What if an individuals parents made bad life decisions? Do you think the child of parents on drugs living in a bedsit has the same opportunities as one born into a family with inherited wealth?turbobloke said:
this country offers people every opportunity to better themselves if they can be bothered.
You do spout a load of old nonsense. Let me guess, you think this is because the poor can't be bothered to better themselves."Britain has some of the lowest social mobility in the developed world - the OECD figures show our earnings in the UK are more likely to reflect our fathers' than any other country".
Fittster said:
You do spout a load of old nonsense. Let me guess, you think this is because the poor can't be bothered to better themselves.
"Britain has some of the lowest social mobility in the developed world - the OECD figures show our earnings in the UK are more likely to reflect our fathers' than any other country".
And yet I pay more in taxes than both my parents peak gross income."Britain has some of the lowest social mobility in the developed world - the OECD figures show our earnings in the UK are more likely to reflect our fathers' than any other country".
Fittster said:
"Britain has some of the lowest social mobility in the developed world - the OECD figures show our earnings in the UK are more likely to reflect our fathers' than any other country".
IME the Brits are almost unique in their sneering contempt for almost anyone daring to aspire to do well, get an education, move to a nice area, get a good job, buy a nice car. Oooooh, who do they think they are? DepressingGT03ROB said:
avinalarf said:
Got me wondering what you do Rob.
Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
Fair comment. But ultimately the tea boy & me are here for the same reason, as are the other 70,000 on the job, it's financially worth our while. It's worth his while to pack up, leave his family & friends in Bangladesh, come here & earn multiples of what he would at home. It's worth my while to do the same. This is simple economics we both get significant benefits. We are both happy with our deals. If the world were a more equal place he gap would not be as great..... but it's not, never has been, never will be.Perhaps you make a smashing cup of coffee,don't tell the tea boy or he'll be after your job.
Not begrudging you a penny but really is that the society we want to live in ,"simple economics" ?
You do not have to be a raving Commie to think there might be something more to it than that.
In terms of what I do? I manage the design & construction of oil/gas/petrochems mega-projects generally in the Middle East. And my coffee making skill are crap! If I had to compete with the tea boy, I'd be on the next flight to Dhaka.
It's nice to hear someone with a sense of humour ,everybody is so bloomin serious.
Thing is when you have seen real poverty,close up,it makes one wonder if we have got our priorities right.
Now I dislike state intervention, not suggesting that.
Posters on here speak of market economics,let the market decide,survival of the fittest,etc,.
OK, that can work, and it is the World I live in but,somewhat hypocritically,I would not agree that it is either ideal or inevitable as some appear to suggest.
I am not in favour either of envy or greed,both are destructive.
Not suggesting we all need to be financially equal,or that entrepreneurs and talented people should not be well rewarded,
but perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit too far
iphonedyou said:
Zoobeef said:
But its not a problem to be solved.
That was my understanding, too. I don't think the gap itself is a problem as such, and even if it were, not one that requires solving.durbster said:
Do you not think there may be a problem when the system we have allows an indivicual to accumulate vastly more wealth than it is possible to spend, when there are still people in the world who can't afford to eat?
The fact that some people can't afford to eat it is a problem, the fact that other people are rich isn't. Put it this way, if nobody could afford to eat there wouldn't be a gap but everyone would starve. So it isn't the gap that's the problem. GT03ROB said:
In terms of what I do? I manage the design & construction of oil/gas/petrochems mega-projects generally in the Middle East. And my coffee making skill are crap! If I had to compete with the tea boy, I'd be on the next flight to Dhaka.
In the interests of closing the rich-poor gap for me personally, do you need an engineer/administrator/gopher in your organisation?TopOnePercent said:
Fittster said:
You do spout a load of old nonsense. Let me guess, you think this is because the poor can't be bothered to better themselves.
"Britain has some of the lowest social mobility in the developed world - the OECD figures show our earnings in the UK are more likely to reflect our fathers' than any other country".
And yet I pay more in taxes than both my parents peak gross income."Britain has some of the lowest social mobility in the developed world - the OECD figures show our earnings in the UK are more likely to reflect our fathers' than any other country".
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