Byron Smith murder trial in US - wow

[Oakey]

scenario8 said:

I appreciate this is likely to be a waste of internet but is there any chance posters on these fora (of which we are all stakeholders) can atleast try to remain pleasant?

And just how the fk is anyone supposed to win the prize for 'being the biggest on the internet competition' if we remain pleasant? Eh?

[paranoid airbag]

Disastrous said:

A few posters have mentioned the time taken to call the authorities and described it as 'not on'.

I completely agree that the bloke sounds like a lunatic and went way over to the top (sounds like he enjoyed it!) but what's the significance of him taking a day to call it in?

I'm assuming they weren't going to get any more dead so having killed them, taking a day to notify the authorities seems like a fairly irrelevant point to get hung up on, unless I'm missing something?

It's more that it's further indication that he's the sort of psycho who enjoys killing and should therefore never have been entrusted with a gun. I'd almost certainly be violenty sick if I had bodies in my home - and I'm betting most of the internet vigilantes who get off on a self-obsessed parody of justice would react likewise.

He should absolutely have a right to defend himself, and if someone puts him in a situation where he has to pull a gun, and thus take a distinct risk of killing someone (as others have said, pulling a gun without taking that risk is fantasy), that is their loss.

He does not have the right to kill. That is a big difference. The same as the difference between wanting to protect all human lives - whilst accepting that protecting those who commit crimes that make that difficult are a lesser priority - and wanting only the people who commit the crimes you are ok with to be protected at all. Unless I've misinterpreted, and it is okay for me to enforce speed limits with a sniper rifle.

[TheJimi]

Ozzie Osmond said:

TheJimi said:

He went too far, but equally, I have zero sympathy for the dead kids.

That makes no sense. You can't have it both ways.

Actually, it does.

As I said in the rest of the post which you have chosen to ignore, I have no issue whatsoever with a householder shooting a burglar then phoning it in. In this case, he didn't just shoot the person, he admittedly carried out an excecution.

So yes, I have zero sympathy for the dead kids, and yes, he went too far - for whatever reason.

If he'd shot them and called it in, chances are he wouldn't be in the mess he's in, and we wouldn't be discussing it.

[Pommygranite]

If it wasn't two good looking white teenagers but two ugly black men no one would care sadly.

[greygoose]

Pommygranite said:

If it wasn't two good looking white teenagers but two ugly black men no one would care sadly.

Sadly there is some truth to that.

[Rovinghawk]

strudel said:

Rovinghawk said:

They committed an adult crime & suffered an adult punishment.

bks did they. An adult punishment involves trial by jury with a punishment that fits the crime. Not cold blooded execution.

I phrased myself badly, for which I apologise.

They committed an adult crime- claiming that they were 'just kids' doesn't work for me. Whilst the punishment was without doubt excessive and tbh a bit sick, it was a case of treating them like grown-ups not kiddies.

[Vaud]

TheJimi said:

Actually, it does.

As I said in the rest of the post which you have chosen to ignore, I have no issue whatsoever with a householder shooting a burglar then phoning it in. In this case, he didn't just shoot the person, he admittedly carried out an excecution.

So yes, I have zero sympathy for the dead kids, and yes, he went too far - for whatever reason.

If he'd shot them and called it in, chances are he wouldn't be in the mess he's in, and we wouldn't be discussing it.

He would be, because he recorded it. And admitted he "finished them off" which is where the grey line is in the US. Okay to shoot someone in your home if you are under threat.

Hard to justify why you finished them off with a calculated shot once they were clearly immobile/very wounded.

[Disastrous]

paranoid airbag said:

Disastrous said:

A few posters have mentioned the time taken to call the authorities and described it as 'not on'.

I completely agree that the bloke sounds like a lunatic and went way over to the top (sounds like he enjoyed it!) but what's the significance of him taking a day to call it in?

I'm assuming they weren't going to get any more dead so having killed them, taking a day to notify the authorities seems like a fairly irrelevant point to get hung up on, unless I'm missing something?

It's more that it's further indication that he's the sort of psycho who enjoys killing and should therefore never have been entrusted with a gun. I'd almost certainly be violenty sick if I had bodies in my home - and I'm betting most of the internet vigilantes who get off on a self-obsessed parody of justice would react likewise.

See, that's the bit I don't understand. I could understand the being violently ill as a reaction to killing them or something but having done all that, I don't see leaving them a day makes it any worse or is any more unbearable. Furthermore, I can see how having done what he did, denial might kick in for a day until his mind allows him to cope with the aftermath.

Did you see my other post going into more detail? I'm just intrigued as to how it suggests he enjoys killing.

[TheJimi]

Vaud said:

TheJimi said:

Actually, it does.

As I said in the rest of the post which you have chosen to ignore, I have no issue whatsoever with a householder shooting a burglar then phoning it in. In this case, he didn't just shoot the person, he admittedly carried out an excecution.

So yes, I have zero sympathy for the dead kids, and yes, he went too far - for whatever reason.

If he'd shot them and called it in, chances are he wouldn't be in the mess he's in, and we wouldn't be discussing it.

He would be, because he recorded it. And admitted he "finished them off" which is where the grey line is in the US. Okay to shoot someone in your home if you are under threat.

Hard to justify why you finished them off with a calculated shot once they were clearly immobile/very wounded.

Ok, I should have said - if he'd "just" shot them, rather than shot them, finished them off, recorded the whole thing and left 'em in his basement for a day.

[Rovinghawk]

Disastrous said:

I can see how having done what he did, denial might kick in for a day until his mind allows him to cope with the aftermath.

Interesting- I'd just presumed a Rambo redneck attitude at first, followed by wondering whether to hide the evidence of what he'd done once he realised how badly he'd screwed up.

[Grumfutock]

Disastrous said:

See, that's the bit I don't understand. I could understand the being violently ill as a reaction to killing them or something but having done all that, I don't see leaving them a day makes it any worse or is any more unbearable. Furthermore, I can see how having done what he did, denial might kick in for a day until his mind allows him to cope with the aftermath.

Did you see my other post going into more detail? I'm just intrigued as to how it suggests he enjoys killing.

Maybe the voices in his head told him to wait. Mine do after I have killed.

[paranoid airbag]

Disastrous said:

See, that's the bit I don't understand. I could understand the being violently ill as a reaction to killing them or something but having done all that, I don't see leaving them a day makes it any worse or is any more unbearable. Furthermore, I can see how having done what he did, denial might kick in for a day until his mind allows him to cope with the aftermath.

Did you see my other post going into more detail? I'm just intrigued as to how it suggests he enjoys killing.

I agree with you that there are multiple explanations for that behaviour, and could be denial. The explanation that initially is most plausible to me is that he just didn't care that much. My reaction (I hope) would be more like:

oh fk oh fk oh god oh st help please somebody jesus christ help me oh god oh god oh fk (etc...)

and then I'd call the police - because this situation has gotten way out of my control and I need help. Rational self-interest and "trying to get away with it" would be nowhere near.

That is all speculation, and if I was on a jury I hope I'd be told to can it. Luckily I'm not a jury. But I still really really wouldn't want someone capable of being that (apparently) cold after shooting someone given a gun. Case in point: two people are dead who might have been alive if they'd have faced someone who shot them until they weren't moving, then immediately called emergency services. And however much a pair of scumbags there were, no-one deserves to lose the right to try and redeem themselves.

Rovinghawk said:

I phrased myself badly, for which I apologise.

They committed an adult crime- claiming that they were 'just kids' doesn't work for me. Whilst the punishment was without doubt excessive and tbh a bit sick, it was a case of treating them like grown-ups not kiddies.

Sorry but I don't see the difference between your two statements. Grown-ups don't deserve vigilante executions either. Shooting in self-defense, yes, but that isn't a punishment. They're two completely unrelated things - as different as hitting a pedestrian because they walked out in front you at the last second, and running someone down for jaywalking.

[kev1974]

Probably was only a matter of time, if he hadn't taken them out, and they kept on burgling properties, eventually someone else would have.

What would have been tragic would be if someone had gone out to shoot who they thought was responsible for these repeated crimes, but got the wrong person, someone innocent. At least he didn't do that.

Bit puzzled as to why he recorded everything though. Not sure how he thought the contents of the tape were going to make his case any better for him!

[Pesty]

kev1974 said:

Probably was only a matter of time, if he hadn't taken them out, and they kept on burgling properties, eventually someone else would have.

What would have been tragic would be if someone had gone out to shoot who they thought was responsible for these repeated crimes, but got the wrong person, someone innocent. At least he didn't do that.

Bit puzzled as to why he recorded everything though. Not sure how he thought the contents of the tape were going to make his case any better for him!

Admitting the finishing shots is going to be what does for him.

He could probably argue PTSD because of break ins but saying to the police about the execution type deal is bonkers.

There are plenty of stories from the us about 14 year olds and upwards murdering people so I don't get all emotional about their age.
If he'd have plugged them then called an ambulance fine by me but he went too far. He wanted to punish them not defend him self IMO.

[Mr_B]

Blimey, that's cold , Tarantino film cold

[GavinPearson]

In Saudi Arabia they cut your hand off if you steal. So if you perhaps thought it was worth the risk to shoplift in the UK because the penalty was a severe dressing down and a day of picking up litter, you might not think it was worth the penalty in Saudi Arabia because you would lose your hand.

In America they can kill you if you enter their property. So if you perhaps thought it was worth the risk to enter property in the UK because the penalty was a severe dressing down and a day of picking up litter, you might not think it was worth the penalty in USA because you would lose your life.

It doesn't mean it's the law I would choose in either place, but it's just the way it is there, and outsiders we just have to accept it until people there decide to change the law to something more reasonable.

And if we think a place has stupid laws we can avoid it too.

[B17NNS]

Mr_B said:

Blimey, that's cold , Tarantino film cold

Nah, he didn't use any cool lines for the tape or anything...

There's a passage that I got memorized, seems appropiate for this situation: Ezekiel 25,17. "The path of the righteous man is beset of all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil me. Blessed is he who, in the name of the charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee...

[Jimbeaux]

P-Jay said:

TheJimi said:

He went too far, but equally, I have zero sympathy for the dead kids.

Summary execution fair justice for breaking and entering?

I'd hope he has the book thrown at him, even with American fked up justice he can't claim he needed to give "a good clean kill" to someone incapacitated and likely to be dead very soon without medical attention.

When I read things like this, I can't help feeling the US is a country falling apart at the seams.

Falling apart at the seams? In the past, this would have happened more often. As for fked up justice, as you call it, pot, kettle, etc.

[Jimbeaux]

Pommygranite said:

If it wasn't two good looking white teenagers but two ugly black men no one would care sadly.

You really think that? Where do you get that from?

[Vaud]

GavinPearson said:

In America they can kill you if you enter their property. So if you perhaps thought it was worth the risk to enter property in the UK because the penalty was a severe dressing down and a day of picking up litter, you might not think it was worth the penalty in USA because you would lose your life.

It doesn't mean it's the law I would choose in either place, but it's just the way it is there, and outsiders we just have to accept it until people there decide to change the law to something more reasonable.

And if we think a place has stupid laws we can avoid it too.

They can shoot you, if in fear for their lives, etc, but it is not a carte blanche to kill someone.