Byron Smith murder trial in US - wow

[Disastrous]

Bill said:

Moving on...

Fair enough Bill - my last comment was meant to try an extend a bit of an olive branch there as I thought he might be getting mixed up and I wasn't looking to derail the thread further...

[Grumfutock]

OK what happened to my post? Why has it been deleted?

[Grumfutock]

Silly thought police again!

[Bill]

Sorry, it went as I was tidying the thread and getting rid of the ongoing childish crap.

[Zoobeef]

Took it a little bit too far. 2 shots centre mass to each as they came barging in would of been perfectly acceptable.
If it puts off the next burglar though then its done something.

[paranoid airbag]

Bill said:

Sorry, it went as I was tidying the thread and getting rid of the ongoing childish crap.

That last page is after a clean up?

Jesus Christ.

And some people argue we're responsible and mature enough to hold guns...

[Grumfutock]

Bill said:

Sorry, it went as I was tidying the thread and getting rid of the ongoing childish crap.

My post was childish crap???????

I pointed out that the girl didn't have a history of house breaking, how is that childish crap?

[GC8]

I would guess that it quoted or referred to the childish crap mentioned.

[Grumfutock]

GC8 said:

I would guess that it quoted or referred to the childish crap mentioned.

Possibly but still outraged.

[lamboman100]

Zoobeef said:

2 shots centre mass to each as they came barging in would of been perfectly acceptable.

The homeowner, in a small town, may have been worried that injured invaders would come back to revisit him after a few weeks in hospital. Kill or be killed, etc.

This case sits in a grey area between defence and attack. Whatever the verdict, guilty or not guilty, it will arguably be a "wrong" one. It is a very tough case.

[Bill]

GC8 said:

I would guess that it quoted or referred to the childish crap mentioned.

Precisely. And won't be replied to (by the poster in question).

[GC8]

I think that 'outraged' is something of an exaggeration, surely?

[Martin4x4]

Yes the execution was excessive but he was clearly distributed and you have to wonder how much of that was out of fear that grew each time his home was violated.

Things in this country are too far the other way like this example.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1410458/Man-who-ki...

I know from my own experience when you get into a fight with a burglar rationality goes out of the window and you fight for your life. In my case I was 'winning' on pure adrenaline but him being high on smack meant I unable to incapacitate him and the fight continued and ended up outside with the Police on the way.

The judge is wrong, you are not safe once out side in my case that is when his two accomplice showed up and one tried to strangle me before all running off as the Police came around the corner.

You don't sleep properly for months wake up at the slightest sound and 'have' to double/triple check all the doors & windows. I had to keep a baseball bat beside the bed for about three years afterwards to feel safe.

Edited by Martin4x4 on Thursday 24th April 22:08

[Fotic]

Grumfutock said:

Possibly but still outraged.

Haha.

[wolves_wanderer]

lamboman100 said:

The homeowner, in a small town, may have been worried that injured invaders would come back to revisit him after a few weeks in hospital. Kill or be killed, etc.

This case sits in a grey area between defence and attack. Whatever the verdict, guilty or not guilty, it will arguably be a "wrong" one. It is a very tough case.

On the same note he will be safer in prison than worrying about the relatives of the people he killed coming for revenge.

[Amirhussain]

I understand shooting them because he was scared/defending himself. I think if he had done that and called the police or asked neighbor's for help, he'd be fine, and they could have been alive, and instead of him being behind bars, it may have been them.

But he decided to become a Macho Man and big himself up by saying st like 'telling authorities he finished Kifer off with a shot under her chin because a .22-caliber 'doesn't go through bone very well.' What did the prick expect after dropping that, a round of applause? And you know this guys an idiot after he used this an excuse to why he never rang police 'just cause my Thanksgiving is screwed up I don't need to screw up yours'. The guy enjoyed killing these two, IMO.

And instead of moving his truck away from his house and waiting in his basement for these two, wouldn't it have been better for him to spend his time better by tightening up his security?

I'm not defending the two people who broke into his house, and I'm not going to say heartless st like 'no great loss' , they're idiots for what they did, but they didn't deserve to die like that.

Edited by Amirhussain on Thursday 24th April 23:15

[NRS]

TopOnePercent said:

FFS. It's not just mammy that calls you "special" is it.

Scum break into the same house three times. Eventually, it gets them killed.

In your mental lentil world the householder should do what? Lie back and think of England, and just pray the intruders are peaceful and unarmed.

Disastrous? Delusional may be more appropriate.

What happens if someone damages your car when you're in it, should you shout them too? There's a huge difference between protecting yourself and property, and taking things way too far. I agree you should be able to protect yourself, but to shoot them the way he did is completely unacceptable.

And for those saying they are no lost... well, you have no idea what would have happened in their life. A lot of people learn and change in their late teens and early 20s as they learn about themselves. Just you have no idea about these two as they won't get the chance.

paranoid airbag said:

That last page is after a clean up?

Jesus Christ.

And some people argue we're responsible and mature enough to hold guns...

Have to agree there!!!

[GavinPearson]

Amirhussain said:

I understand shooting them because he was scared/defending himself. I think if he had done that and called the police or asked neighbor's for help, he'd be fine, and they could have been alive, and instead of him being behind bars, it may have been them.

But he decided to become a Macho Man and big himself up by saying st like 'telling authorities he finished Kifer off with a shot under her chin because a .22-caliber 'doesn't go through bone very well.' What did the prick expect after dropping that, a round of applause? And you know this guys an idiot after he used this an excuse to why he never rang police 'just cause my Thanksgiving is screwed up I don't need to screw up yours'. The guy enjoyed killing these two, IMO.

And instead of moving his truck away from his house and waiting in his basement for these two, wouldn't it have been better for him to spend his time better by tightening up his security?

I'm not defending the two people who broke into his house, and I'm not going to say heartless st like 'no great loss' rolleyes , they're idiots for what they did, but they didn't deserve to die like that.

I think your assessment of the homeowner's attitude is correct, and the two who broke and entered did not deserve to be executed by the homeowner. But when you live in a country where burglars are often armed and to whom death is an occupational hazard, and where homeowners who live in high crime areas think they can execute a burglar on site, the fact that it happened should not Bea surprise. A pity, but not a surprise.

[Ozzie Osmond]

NRS said:

TopOnePercent said:

There's a huge difference between protecting yourself and property, and taking things way too far.

Depends which country you are in. Broadly speaking, you can't attack an intruder in defence of your "property" in UK. You can only use "reasonable force" to eject the intruder - and that may mean no more than asking him to go away. You can only get physical if he won't go away.

In the USA it's completely different and, amongst other things, varies from state to state. At the simplest, a property owner can use more force with less provocation in USA.

This is worth a read. It deals with a similar killing by Tony Martin in UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

This second link gives a brief outline of the relevant law (Minnesota, USA) for the Byron Smith case. It's very different,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

[Amirhussain]

GavinPearson said:

Amirhussain said:

I understand shooting them because he was scared/defending himself. I think if he had done that and called the police or asked neighbor's for help, he'd be fine, and they could have been alive, and instead of him being behind bars, it may have been them.

But he decided to become a Macho Man and big himself up by saying st like 'telling authorities he finished Kifer off with a shot under her chin because a .22-caliber 'doesn't go through bone very well.' What did the prick expect after dropping that, a round of applause? And you know this guys an idiot after he used this an excuse to why he never rang police 'just cause my Thanksgiving is screwed up I don't need to screw up yours'. The guy enjoyed killing these two, IMO.

And instead of moving his truck away from his house and waiting in his basement for these two, wouldn't it have been better for him to spend his time better by tightening up his security?

I'm not defending the two people who broke into his house, and I'm not going to say heartless st like 'no great loss' rolleyes , they're idiots for what they did, but they didn't deserve to die like that.

I think your assessment of the homeowner's attitude is correct, and the two who broke and entered did not deserve to be executed by the homeowner. But when you live in a country where burglars are often armed and to whom death is an occupational hazard, and where homeowners who live in high crime areas think they can execute a burglar on site, the fact that it happened should not Bea surprise. A pity, but not a surprise.

I agree with you, but the way he carried out the killing, by shooting her under her chin, I lost sympathy for him, if he hadn't done that, he probably would be a free man today.