NHS getting worse at clawing back cash for foreigners’ care
Discussion
We have got the country some people people think we deserve:
'NHS hospitals are getting even worse at clawing back money for foreigners’ healthcare, despite ministers’ pledges to stamp out health tourism.
A £600million ‘health tourism gap’ sees the UK paying out £20 for the healthcare costs of Britons who fall ill on the continent for every £1 it gets back for the NHS treatment of European visitors.
The disparity is even worse than it was two years ago, when Britain paid out £16 for every £1 it got back.
It means that, despite promises from David Cameron and Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt to get to grips with the issue, the gulf is widening year on year.
The figures, released following a Freedom of Information request, show that in 2012/13, British taxpayers handed £649.3million to European governments to pay for the care of UK citizens who fall ill abroad.
But the NHS managed to collect only £32million from the same European countries to pay for the care of their citizens who needed treatment here.
Ministers claim ‘health tourism’ costs British taxpayers billions a year, as many NHS trusts do not even keep records of debts.
Last year cancer specialist Professor J Meirion Thomas warned of a ‘massive and escalating problem’ of foreigners travelling to Britain for cancer, HIV, kidney and infertility treatment then leaving without paying.
He said the NHS was also becoming the ‘world’s maternity wing’.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611771/NH...
'NHS hospitals are getting even worse at clawing back money for foreigners’ healthcare, despite ministers’ pledges to stamp out health tourism.
A £600million ‘health tourism gap’ sees the UK paying out £20 for the healthcare costs of Britons who fall ill on the continent for every £1 it gets back for the NHS treatment of European visitors.
The disparity is even worse than it was two years ago, when Britain paid out £16 for every £1 it got back.
It means that, despite promises from David Cameron and Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt to get to grips with the issue, the gulf is widening year on year.
The figures, released following a Freedom of Information request, show that in 2012/13, British taxpayers handed £649.3million to European governments to pay for the care of UK citizens who fall ill abroad.
But the NHS managed to collect only £32million from the same European countries to pay for the care of their citizens who needed treatment here.
Ministers claim ‘health tourism’ costs British taxpayers billions a year, as many NHS trusts do not even keep records of debts.
Last year cancer specialist Professor J Meirion Thomas warned of a ‘massive and escalating problem’ of foreigners travelling to Britain for cancer, HIV, kidney and infertility treatment then leaving without paying.
He said the NHS was also becoming the ‘world’s maternity wing’.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611771/NH...
If no one keeps records how do they know they are spending millions and millions on foreigners healthcare?
because if one was to take the figures quoted and not indulge in fantasy figures it is deffo that more brits use european hospitals than coem here to use ours. So it is the Brits who are the health tourists.
because if one was to take the figures quoted and not indulge in fantasy figures it is deffo that more brits use european hospitals than coem here to use ours. So it is the Brits who are the health tourists.
santona1937 said:
If no one keeps records how do they know they are spending millions and millions on foreigners healthcare?
because if one was to take the figures quoted and not indulge in fantasy figures it is deffo that more brits use european hospitals than coem here to use ours. So it is the Brits who are the health tourists.
This. How many people are being treated for the sums involved? You can't draw any useful conclusions from that article.because if one was to take the figures quoted and not indulge in fantasy figures it is deffo that more brits use european hospitals than coem here to use ours. So it is the Brits who are the health tourists.
Bless - who said NHS Admin staff were hopeless? 
ClaphamGT3 said:
In fairness to the Govt, this is principally an operational issue for individual Trusts rather than a failing on the part of the Govt.
and a system that is not set up to generate individual billing in a timely fashion add in , rightly or wrong, the objections from some unions if clinicial staff were required to enquire asto or undertake some other check of eligibility you can see why it has been neglected
PorkInsider said:
Why on earth are we providing cancer treatment for non-nationals?
As awful as cancer is, telling the person they need to seek treatment at home isn't going to make much difference to the outcome.
It's not like sorting someone out who's had a heart attack.
Cancer doesn't automatically equal death. If you get good treatment. As awful as cancer is, telling the person they need to seek treatment at home isn't going to make much difference to the outcome.
It's not like sorting someone out who's had a heart attack.
You can understand and sympathise with someone trying to stay alive. Dunno what the answer is but I wouldn't like to the be the person packing a poorly chap off home to snuff it when he might otherwise survive.
dave_s13 said:
PorkInsider said:
Why on earth are we providing cancer treatment for non-nationals?
As awful as cancer is, telling the person they need to seek treatment at home isn't going to make much difference to the outcome.
It's not like sorting someone out who's had a heart attack.
Cancer doesn't automatically equal death. If you get good treatment.As awful as cancer is, telling the person they need to seek treatment at home isn't going to make much difference to the outcome.
It's not like sorting someone out who's had a heart attack.
You can understand and sympathise with someone trying to stay alive. Dunno what the answer is but I wouldn't like to the be the person packing a poorly chap off home to snuff it when he might otherwise survive.
I'm sure consultants are perfectly used to telling people they can't do anything for them because a particular treatment isn't being provided on the NHS.
Edited by PorkInsider on Thursday 19th March 18:30
PorkInsider said:
dave_s13 said:
PorkInsider said:
Why on earth are we providing cancer treatment for non-nationals?
As awful as cancer is, telling the person they need to seek treatment at home isn't going to make much difference to the outcome.
It's not like sorting someone out who's had a heart attack.
Cancer doesn't automatically equal death. If you get good treatment.As awful as cancer is, telling the person they need to seek treatment at home isn't going to make much difference to the outcome.
It's not like sorting someone out who's had a heart attack.
You can understand and sympathise with someone trying to stay alive. Dunno what the answer is but I wouldn't like to the be the person packing a poorly chap off home to snuff it when he might otherwise survive.
I'm sure consultants are perfectly used to telling people they can't do anything for them because a particular treatment isn't being provided on the NHS.
Edited by PorkInsider on Thursday 19th March 18:30
No checks and balances in place it seems to me. I have no idea how it works though.
dave_s13 said:
I actually work for the NHS and have often seen people where I've questioned (to myself) why they get seen given they seem to be here purely on the back of a distant family member being resident. They often don't work, never have and never will so haven't made any contribution whatsoever to the "system". Trouble is, I have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not they should or shouldn't get seen. They are referred, we see them, that's it.
No checks and balances in place it seems to me. I have no idea how it works though.
the simplest answer would be to beef up the NHS number card from a cheap barely laminated fold over sticky card to a proper photo id and require that for all but emergenc treatment , but unfortunately the anti ID card hand-wringers would put paid to that idea.No checks and balances in place it seems to me. I have no idea how it works though.
Pesty said:
But the government said it would clamp down on it.
I recall the Blair govt. said it would end boom-bust economics.Since when has anyone who has left school actually believed any government promising to crack down on anything? Most of the time its just re-announcing existing commitments anyway.
Bottom line: the nhs doesn't want to be a commercial organisation, and any attempt to do so will let labour simply whip the media into a "destroying our national treasure" frenzy.
Ian
Ian Geary said:
Pesty said:
But the government said it would clamp down on it.
I recall the Blair govt. said it would end boom-bust economics.Since when has anyone who has left school actually believed any government promising to crack down on anything? Most of the time its just re-announcing existing commitments anyway.
Bottom line: the nhs doesn't want to be a commercial organisation, and any attempt to do so will let labour simply whip the media into a "destroying our national treasure" frenzy.
Ian
Foppo said:
Who are these people then misusing the N.H.S.?
E.U workers (residents) or do they arrive from outsize the E.U.
What are the figures can't be that difficult if you take hospital by hospital.
EU nationals working / permanently resident in the UK the are eligible for NHS funded careE.U workers (residents) or do they arrive from outsize the E.U.
What are the figures can't be that difficult if you take hospital by hospital.
other people working in the UK or with IDLR are eligible for NHS funded care
some others may be eligible for NHS care based on the class of visa they are here on.
EU temporary residents / visitors should be dealt with on the basis of the EHIC/E111 arrangements
it's none EU 'visitors' that pose the greatest risk of none recovery as in theory they should be billed for all none emergency care
There's no system in place or desire to take the money. A couple of years ago friends of ours had South African family over. One of them went quite ill and spent a week in hospital, but when he was discharged he tried the ward and elsewhere with his debit/credit cards and was refused because there was no facility to take his payment so he went home scott-free!
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