Guns Everywhere

[Corpulent Tosser]

unrepentant said:

Corpulent Tosser said:

I am a firm supporter of gun control, but I also think responsible law abiding citizens should be able to decide for themselves if they want to own a gun.

Define responsible law abiding citizen.

Most professional people I know want nothing to do with guns and would vote for a ban tomorrow given the opportunity. They are certainly in favour of much stricter controls. The people who I know who revel in their gun ownership are pretty much all people that I'd rather had no access to any weapons whatsoever.

Prior to the Dunblane shooting there were stringent controls on who could have firearms, also on what weapons they could hold, it was very specific and each gun they owned was registered to the certificate holder, and even the amount of ammunition they were allowed to hold was controlled, checks were made on certificate holders and the certificate could be revoked for any breach or if there was doubt about the suitability for the certificate to remain in force.
The problem was that too often the mechanism for checking long term certificate holder was not properly administered.

As for people who revel in gun ownership I could agree, I know people who think much the same about people who want to own high performance cars, but what about people who want to own a gun to take part in what used to be a legitimate and enjoyable sport, why shouldn't they be able to ?

A nutter will get a gun illegally if he wants one.

[Corpulent Tosser]

Pommygranite said:

Corpulent Tosser said:

ban all firearms and only criminals have them.

But arent most current mass killings perpetrated by people without criminal/low level records? Take away the opportunity effect.

If you are talking about the US you are wasting your time, even if there was a government who banned the sale of all firearms tomorrow the availability would remain.

If you are talking about Britain, the mass shootings that have been perpetrated in Britain by licenced owners of weapons which are now banned could and should have been prevented had existing laws and regulations been utilised.

[hairykrishna]

I always find the US gun control debate interesting. I think something which would make a difference in the USA and which could actually be implemented would be increasing the amount of legal responsibility gun owners have for their firearms. If it was made a blanket law that unattended firearms have to be properly secured, in a similar way to weapons held on a FAC over here, then I think accidental deaths would be massively reduced. It'd also have a bit of an impact on the availability of illegal guns - crack head burglars are not going to get into proper gun safes. It might also have an impact on the high school spree killings, although they actually make a pretty small contribution to the statistics.

[hairykrishna]

Corpulent Tosser said:

A nutter will get a gun illegally if he wants one.

I think in the the UK he'd struggle a fair bit. Even well connected criminal gangs, for the most part, make do with utter crap for their firearms. Converted blank firers and similar.

[NRS]

Corpulent Tosser said:

Pommygranite said:

I never said that. I said dont sell any more new guns.

Also, why has everyone in America 'got to defend themselves'? Oh yeah, thats right, from all the responsible law abiding citizens with guns

More likely to protect themselves from the scrotes with illegally held firearms, ban all firearms and only criminals have them.

Have you ever even considered someone using a gun on you in the UK? Just because they're illegal it does not mean you're going to be killed thousands of times throughout your life by crimnals with guns. Not saying there should be a complete ban, just saying in the US it is way too easy to get them.

[Corpulent Tosser]

NRS said:

Corpulent Tosser said:

Pommygranite said:

I never said that. I said dont sell any more new guns.

Also, why has everyone in America 'got to defend themselves'? Oh yeah, thats right, from all the responsible law abiding citizens with guns

More likely to protect themselves from the scrotes with illegally held firearms, ban all firearms and only criminals have them.

Have you ever even considered someone using a gun on you in the UK? Just because they're illegal it does not mean you're going to be killed thousands of times throughout your life by crimnals with guns. Not saying there should be a complete ban, just saying in the US it is way too easy to get them.

I agree it is far too easy in the US, I know from experience just how easy, I bought two.

I am more interested in Britain though and IMO the control of firearms has gone too far.

[AshVX220]

redtwin said:

Clivey said:

+1

I did this last time I was in the 'States (August last year). I must admit it felt completely alien that all they did was take a photocopy of my driving licence before handing me first a Glock, then a USP to try out. It was the first time I'd handled pistols (the nearest thing I've handled here is a Taurus long-barelled revolver belonging to a friend). I preferred the USP - the Glock was too light, felt a bit like a toy, I don't like not having a safety and it was a little awkward to load.

Glocks have a safety, more than one actually. The manual user-operated safety is activated by the little lever on the trigger.

I am with you on not liking Glocks, though there is no denying their simplicity, reliability and relative low cost. For that reason if I was ever in a position that I wanted to carry a pistol for self-defence, it would be a Glock. As a range or target gun, there are much more enjoyable pistols than Glocks.

Edited by redtwin on Sunday 27th April 08:45

Last time I went to the US I shot a Glock, which was the more comfortable pistol, but I preferred the Beretta, I shot after the glock. They also had an AR-15 which had been converted to 9mm (it was an indoor range) and used an Uzi mag and Mag housing. Was OK, but I prefer pistols.

[Clivey]

It's a shame that we don't get chance to shoot pistols here - I actually find going to the range relaxing because you forget about whatever else is going on in your life and just concentrate on something relatively simple.

[AshVX220]

Clivey said:

It's a shame that we don't get chance to shoot pistols here - I actually find going to the range relaxing because you forget about whatever else is going on in your life and just concentrate on something relatively simple.

Indeed.

[130R]

A company called Armatix has developed a "smart gun" that won't fire unless it is within 10 inches of a RFID watch, interestingly though nobody will sell it because of fears (read: death threats) over it triggering a New Jersey law mandating that all handguns in the state be personalized within three years of a smart gun going on sale anywhere in the United States:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/maryland-deale...

[redtwin]

Clivey said:

It's a shame that we don't get chance to shoot pistols here - I actually find going to the range relaxing because you forget about whatever else is going on in your life and just concentrate on something relatively simple.

Airguns offer the same escape along with the discipline required for precision shooting. The only thing missing is the "bang".

I was very sceptical of them at first, thought that having owned and shot the "real" thing would mean I wouldn't enjoy airguns, but I was wrong. The relatively low cost and not having to spend hours cleaning them after were a bonus.

There are some in the US who are fully capable of owning rim and centre-fire guns that have switched to airguns for hobby shooting simply due to the high cost of ammunition.

[Silent1]

130R said:

A company called Armatix has developed a "smart gun" that won't fire unless it is within 10 inches of a RFID watch, interestingly though nobody will sell it because of fears (read: death threats) over it triggering a New Jersey law mandating that all handguns in the state be personalized within three years of a smart gun going on sale anywhere in the United States:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/maryland-deale...

IIRC, those guns have also had appalling track records when tested by the military and police forces.

[mackie1]

Fair point about air guns. They are pretty good these days. Rim fire shooting isn't too bad cost-wise though. £80 for 1000 high quality rounds is manageable.