NHS RECRUITEMENT POLICY

[mrpurple]

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? Since it began in the 50's, hospitals have traditionally recruited nurses and doctors from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies but this no longer happens to any great degree if at all.

My view is that, to provide the best service, only the best should be recruited regardless of their country of origin - why is this not happening? Should it be happening?

[longblackcoat]

mrpurple said:

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? Since it began in the 50's, hospitals have traditionally recruited nurses and doctors from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies but this no longer happens to any great degree if at all.

My view is that, to provide the best service, only the best should be recruited regardless of their country of origin - why is this not happening? Should it be happening?

Sorry to disabuse you, but your facts are incorrect. The NHS is still recruiting widely from many countries, including The Philippines - I know this because I spoke a Filipino nurse who started at Stanmore just two weeks back.

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? Since it began in the 50's, hospitals have traditionally recruited nurses and doctors from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies but this no longer happens to any great degree if at all.

My view is that, to provide the best service, only the best should be recruited regardless of their country of origin - why is this not happening? Should it be happening?

Sorry to disabuse you, but your facts are incorrect. The NHS is still recruiting widely from many countries, including The Philippines - I know this because I spoke a Filipino nurse who started at Stanmore just two weeks back.

disabuse....will look that up.

"no longer happens to any great degree if at all"..you may well know 1 or 2 but I know for a fact this would be a very, very small % (assuming she migrated here for the job and was not here already)

I can't find many up to date links but know somebody that is in Portugal doing mass interviews as I type...no such mass recruitment drive is going on in the Philippines or any of the other countries I mentioned.... why do you think that is?

http://www.gwh.nhs.uk/about-us/news/nurses-from-ir...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/dec/20/nur...

ps I had 2 ops at RNOH Stanmore and had to be transferred elsewhere to put them right.

Edited by mrpurple on Thursday 24th April 12:11

[NPI]

Romania and Bulgaria are popular recruiting grounds for nurses since the movement restrictions were lifted.

Apparently there were already quite a lot of more senior Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff here and they're not too happy about being lumped in with the rest of their compatriots.

[mrpurple]

NPI said:

Romania and Bulgaria are popular recruiting grounds for nurses since the movement restrictions were lifted.

Apparently there were already quite a lot of more senior Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff here and they're not too happy about being lumped in with the rest of their compatriots.

I am sure you may have a point also but why no longer from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies?

[longblackcoat]

mrpurple said:

NPI said:

Romania and Bulgaria are popular recruiting grounds for nurses since the movement restrictions were lifted.

Apparently there were already quite a lot of more senior Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff here and they're not too happy about being lumped in with the rest of their compatriots.

I am sure you may have a point also but why no longer from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies?

Look, you stated as a fact that the only recruitment for nurses is now from Spain and Portugal. I gave one example of a Filipino nurse I spoke to last week who came here directly from her home country to work here. She was the only nurse who was treating my son, and I didn't go around the National Orthopaedic Centre looking for other nurses to question.

Rather than flogging this particular horse and asking about Australian nurses etc, why not do some research BEFORE posting.


Edited to add: There were precisely three people in this country who could do the operation on my son's leg, all of whom were at Stanmore. They've been completely wonderful, despite the rubbish facilities. I simply could not have asked for better care for him. Sorry to hear that your experience was different, but I'd say that it's not the norm.

Edited by longblackcoat on Thursday 24th April 12:22

[Alfa numeric]

mrpurple said:

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain?

I'd imagine it's partly due to it being a hell of a lot easier to recruit from a country that doesn't require you to jump through a million hoops to get the required work visa from the Home Office. My Aussie OH had a hell of a job getting a visa in 2009 and from what I understand it's only got harder.

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

NPI said:

Romania and Bulgaria are popular recruiting grounds for nurses since the movement restrictions were lifted.

Apparently there were already quite a lot of more senior Romanian and Bulgarian medical staff here and they're not too happy about being lumped in with the rest of their compatriots.

I am sure you may have a point also but why no longer from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies?

Look, you stated as a fact that the only recruitment for nurses is now from Spain and Portugal. I gave one example of a Filipino nurse I spoke to last week who came here directly from her home country to work here. She was the only nurse who was treating my son, and I didn't go around the National Orthopaedic Centre looking for other nurses to question.

Rather than flogging this particular horse and asking about Australian nurses etc, why not do some research BEFORE posting.

Perhaps you should read all the post rather than just skimming it? "no longer happens to any great degree if at all"

So you based your reply on the 1 nurse you met yet call me out for not doing research and think you have disabused me on that basis?

So are you stating that all nurses are recruited based on their skills etc regardless of their country of origin? How about a link or 2 to back up your argument?

[blindswelledrat]

mrpurple said:

The reasons for needing to recruit nurses from overseas are varied, complicated and should be an issue of great concern but why are they now only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? Since it began in the 50's, hospitals have traditionally recruited nurses and doctors from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies but this no longer happens to any great degree if at all.

My view is that, to provide the best service, only the best should be recruited regardless of their country of origin - why is this not happening? Should it be happening?

Can you evidence your assertion that people are only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? The team my daughter is currently dealing with consists of 4 British, 2 South Africans,1 Spanish, 1 Scandinavian and two Germans. I have seen a lot of the NHS lately and it doesn't seem to resemble your claim at all
Also, this idea of the NHS doing international recruiting roadshows Im pretty sceptical of.
I would hazard a guess (which I am stating as a guess as opposed to your stating of 'facts') that the NHS advertise and people apply and that they have no control over the general nationality?

[menousername]

I know a bit about this direct from source, and there is a huge amount of sponsorship is being given to an increasing amount of health workers from the Phils

And those that do come often recommend and encourage their friends and former colleagues and come with the intention of starting a family. They usually have facilities not traditionally available, such as cheap subsidised accommodation, nurseries etc etc.

I believe it is to become a huge problem - not specific to the country of origin but to this country generally

Quite a few EU and non-EU provide cheap / free education. This means that they come with pretty high quality experience. For example, a "nurse" in the Phils is actually more of a heath assistant, one step up from what we would regard as a nurse here, and working more closely with the consultants in giving treatment. Philipina nurses coming to the UK would find a nursing role a step beneath them.

I am not too familiar with the situation in regards to training here, but an extended degree does not add up, financially, for UK aspiring health workers given the costs of eductation and training. I am not sure how far this is subsidised but I guess its not to a great extent. Further, last I heard, the Govt were thinking about making it a requirement to have a degree to become a nurse. Again unless subsidised to the tune of about 75% that does not add up given the salary expectations thereafter. In fact, funding seems to be for post-grad level, vocational training, going to the existing workforce... if you get my drift.... existing workforce increasingly non-english in origin.

So any aspiring UK health worker is immediately at a disadvantage. And your average department head, recruiting for a gap, will respond to this "perceived shortage" and once again recruit from abroad, since it is easier and cheaper to sponsor a visa than to train home-grown talent. Good for that hiring manager, but good for the UK? In the longterm?

So scroll forward a few years, entire departments largely made up of foreign workers. Traditional low-level / entry-level opportunities no longer available to those that would traditionally have filled them? If you have a department of 10 staff, with 3 Indians, 2 Nepalise, and 5 Philipinas, how do you supposed an Enlgish applicant with non-of-the-above language skills will be regarded by the non-English hiring manager? Perhaps a bit of a sweeping generalisation... for now... but I do not see it improving

Again this is no reflection on the quality of care provided but I disagree wholeheartedly with any kind of implication that home grown health workers are unwilling, unskilled, etc. Its all about funding, training, and availability. Do we really want to spend that much on funding overseas workers when we could be training our kids, grand-kids etc?



And then those in charge blame a lack of suitable candidates or imply that UK people are not hard working, do not want those lower level roles etc etc

[DS3R]

WHY THE SHOUTY TITLE!?!?

Surely this is just because the NHS has ever limited recources, so can't recruit "everywhere", and just has to logically target. Costs to travel to mainland Europe are less than the other side of the world, both Spain and Portugal have qualified people and limited Gov. spending, so there will be people wanting work- it just sounds like common sense to me.

The number of people coming from Down Under to the UK has fallen dramatically in recent years as the exchange rate is crap, so there's less of an incentive to be here, and only half the number of working visa's have been issued since 2006- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25401024.

[longblackcoat]

mrpurple said:

How about a link or 2 to back up your argument?

It's not my argument though, is it?

You made a statement. It so happens that I happen to have knowledge that disproves your statement. But now you'd like me to do the work to prove just how wrong you were? No thanks; I have no desire to get involved in yet another mud-slinging, point-scoring thread that will inevitable descend into a UKIP-flavoured immigration debate.

Ahhm oot.

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

Edited to add: There were precisely three people in this country who could do the operation on my son's leg, all of whom were at Stanmore. They've been completely wonderful, despite the rubbish facilities. I simply could not have asked for better care for him. Sorry to hear that your experience was different, but I'd say that it's not the norm.

Edited by longblackcoat on Thursday 24th April 12:22

Just seen your edit....... really honestly pleased your son got the treatment he deserved....I was just unfortunate but sincerely hope, as you say, it's not the norm.

[NPI]

mrpurple said:

I am sure you may have a point also but why no longer from Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, South Africa and the West Indies?

The NHS has been under some pressure not to drain nurses from places where they're needed more.

I would also imagine that, apart from a few who would want to travel etc, nurses in Aus, NZ and SA would probably be better off there.

[mrpurple]

longblackcoat said:

mrpurple said:

How about a link or 2 to back up your argument?

It's not my argument though, is it?

You made a statement. It so happens that I happen to have knowledge that disproves your statement. But now you'd like me to do the work to prove just how wrong you were? No thanks; I have no desire to get involved in yet another mud-slinging, point-scoring thread that will inevitable descend into a UKIP-flavoured immigration debate.

Ahhm oot.

Sorry I am confused..you stated the 1 person you met disabused me....by doing so you made it your argument......

disabuse
ˌdɪsəˈbjuːz/
verb
past tense: disabused; past participle: disabused

1.
persuade (someone) that an idea or belief is mistaken.
"he quickly disabused me of my fanciful notions"
synonyms: disillusion, undeceive, correct, set right/straight, open the eyes of, enlighten, reveal the truth to, wake up, disenchant, shatter the illusions of, make sadder and wiser

I am happy to be proven wrong providing it can be substantiated, but you don't seem to want or be able to do that. Fine way for a legal expert to behave IMHO, but that is your choice i suppose.

ps It does seem others have other views and opinions that I am currently taking on board and may even end with me posting an acceptance of being wrong.

[iphonedyou]

mrpurple said:

Sorry I am confused..you stated the 1 person you met disabused me....by doing so you made it your argument......

disabuse
ˌdɪsəˈbjuːz/
verb
past tense: disabused; past participle: disabused

1.
persuade (someone) that an idea or belief is mistaken.
"he quickly disabused me of my fanciful notions"
synonyms: disillusion, undeceive, correct, set right/straight, open the eyes of, enlighten, reveal the truth to, wake up, disenchant, shatter the illusions of, make sadder and wiser

I am happy to be proven wrong providing it can be substantiated, but you don't seem to want or be able to do that. Fine way for a legal expert to behave IMHO, but that is your choice i suppose.

ps It does seem others have other views and opinions that I am currently taking on board and may even end with me posting an acceptance of being wrong.

I'd imagine longblackcoat has taken exception to your starting a thread with no evidence, then waiting for him and others to post evidence to state that you're wrong.

With respect, you should have included evidence backing your assertion in the original post.

[aw51 121565]

DS3R said:

WHY THE SHOUTY TITLE!?!?

And why the typo? (No, not you .)

[/grammer nazi ]


I suggest this is a non-thread; recruited staff come from all over the world (well, great swathes of it) as other posters have said - just as such staff always did and always will, and the countries they move here from will ebb and flow as the tide...

[iphonedyou]

aw51 121565 said:

And why the typo? (No, not you .)

[/grammer nazi ]


I suggest this is a non-thread; recruited staff come from all over the world (well, great swathes of it) as other posters have said - just as such staff always did and always will, and the countries they move here from will ebb and flow as the tide...

'Grammar'.

[mrpurple]

blindswelledrat said:

Can you evidence your assertion that people are only being recruited from Portugal and Spain? The team my daughter is currently dealing with consists of 4 British, 2 South Africans,1 Spanish, 1 Scandinavian and two Germans. I have seen a lot of the NHS lately and it doesn't seem to resemble your claim at all
Also, this idea of the NHS doing international recruiting roadshows Im pretty sceptical of.
I would hazard a guess (which I am stating as a guess as opposed to your stating of 'facts') that the NHS advertise and people apply and that they have no control over the general nationality?

Unfortunately I can't evidence it without treading on a few delicate toes sorry....... Someone close to me spent a long time in India on a recruitment drive a few years ago, her successor is now doing exactly the same in Portugal, nowhere else. It may well be this is an isolated decision and that other trusts are recruiting elsewhere in the world and will be happy to admit I am wrong if so.

Putting the issue of why overseas recruitment is needed at all, If I am correct then why have not continue to advertise / recruit the best from wherever they are in the world and not just EU countries?

[P-Jay]

I'm only guessing, but the Wife's a Nurse and knows lots of other Nurses from all over the globe.

It's not some clandestine policy change to bring in Nurses with from certain places and exclude others to meet any quotas or anything like that.

I'd guess it's all about effective use of budget - you could go setting your stall out in Aus and NZ, but their economy barely hit a hiccup through the recession so UK wages don't seem as good as they were pre-08 so you could spend £X on advertising poorly paid jobs (by comparison) in a rainy little island about as far away from their friends and family you can get, or set your stall out in the newest parts of Europe where a UK nurses wages looks like a lottery win.