Edinburgh tram goes live tomorrow!

[0a]

As a recent Edinburgh resident, the inconvenience and overspend of the tram project is pretty much all I hear about in the city's cabs.

I'm not quite sure why putting a less flexible, monumentally expensive alternative to the bus is a good idea, but after years of inconvenience the Edinburgh tram finally "goes live tomorrow".

Summary of the fiasco here: http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-f...

Hopefully a warning to any other city that's thinking of a similar project...

I will not be there at 5am to experience the first tram.

[TheSnitch]

Great, an insanely costly white elephant that basically starts in the middle of nowhere and ends in the middle of nowhere. Can't wait.

[tim0409]

£1 billion to replicate a brilliant bus service (no. 22) on a single route (which incidentally is the last route you would choose). It will also cost more and take longer to reach the airport than the excellent Airlink bus. Complete and utter waste of cash.

I was in Edinburgh today and the trams have also messed with the traffic/pedestrian signals which is going to lead to some serious congestion and more aggravation. Welcome to the Scottish Parliament on wheels.

[0a]

I have one question - how can £1bn (the cost including interest on the loan) plus massive inconvenience have ever been "signed off" or allowed?

[Troubleatmill]

0a said:

I have one question - how can £1bn (the cost including interest on the loan) plus massive inconvenience have ever been "signed off" or allowed?

You have seen the cost to build the Scottish Parliament? And the £1Million + a year required to keep it from falling down?
It is cheaper to level it - and start again.

[loafer123]

I remain confused why they didn't just add a station at the airport on the line to Fife. Bizarre.

[Mojocvh]

Troubleatmill said:

You have seen the cost to build the Scottish Parliament? And the £1Million + a year required to keep it from falling down?
It is cheaper to level it - and start again.

sorted that out.

[mini1380cc]

Widely seen as edinburghs great embarrassment. A complete waste of money and more importantly, a real hindrance to the day to day running of the city centre. I have not spoken to one single fellow resident who will benefit from its existence.

Just to screw residents further they have approved a 20mph vehicle limit in the city, which is a feeble attempt to make alternative transport less appealing. Lesley hinds should be put forward for public trial.

[TheSnitch]

0a said:

I have one question - how can £1bn (the cost including interest on the loan) plus massive inconvenience have ever been "signed off" or allowed?

I don't live in the city, but have to spend several days a month there and since the very beginning it has been an utter shambles. There was a point a few years ago - can't remember when exactly, maybe three or four years back - when the authorities, faced with an already massively over budget project, had to decide whether to continue. I guess it was the least worse option to continue rather than write the entire thing off as a hideous mistake.

Frankly, I am not expecting much more from the reinstated Borders Railway either, when that completes. Although, at a mere £350m it's a bargain compared to the trams.

[vx220]

Taking our PH hats off, what are the benefits of a tram system over buses?

[Mojocvh]

vx220 said:

Taking our PH hats off, what are the benefits of a tram system over buses?

If it's properly integrated and run LOTS!!

The trams in European cities [esp in Germany] are relativity inexpensive, clean and get you where you want to go.

[anonymous-user]

vx220 said:

Taking our PH hats off, what are the benefits of a tram system over buses?

Presumably they don't use fossil fuels? Well not directly though they probably use electricity generated by fossil fuels.

Just watched the leader of Edinburgh council, on the BBC, trying to justify the whole debacle, by saying she hopes the Edinburgh folk will come to appreciate it in time. Only if they're as brain dead a she is, I fear.

I just hope it's Scotland that's paid for this and not the rest of us.

[vx220]

Does the "clean/eco" argument stand up if you take into account the additional traffic sitting at idle waiting for them to pass?

And all the energy that goes into making and laying the track?

And a bus service can easily be rerouted around an accident or if a new business/residential opportunity opens up?

[anonymous-user]

vx220 said:

Does the "clean/eco" argument stand up if you take into account the additional traffic sitting at idle waiting for them to pass?

And all the energy that goes into making and laying the track?

And a bus service can easily be rerouted around an accident or if a new business/residential opportunity opens up?

Of course it doesn't. The clean/eco argument rarely does stand up.

[egomeister]

Mojocvh said:

vx220 said:

Taking our PH hats off, what are the benefits of a tram system over buses?

If it's properly integrated and run LOTS!!

The trams in European cities [esp in Germany] are relativity inexpensive, clean and get you where you want to go.

As Mojocvh says... lots. Having spent most of the past year in Germany it's made me jealous of the transport options they have. Where I was in Cologne there is a mix of surface trams and underground which works pretty effectively. Obviously the underground is unhindered by traffic and so runs a bit smoother but there generally wasn't too many issues with the trams. The mix of walking/cycling/driving/bus/tram/train worked well.

If Edinburgh can continue to invest in the system I think it should be good for city. Each line added can improve the usefulness greatly.

It does make me wonder why as a nation we'd fallen so far behind in some of these transport options. It seems to me that other countries like Germany have seen sustained investment as part of a long game whereas we seem to only be able to focus shorter term. (Something mirrored in my dealings with German business too)

[London424]

And these are the same people that think they can set up an independent Scotland for £250 million

[carreauchompeur]

Is this the tram that doesn't go to the airport?

[grumbledoak]

As long as the Scots are paying for it themselves good luck to them.

As if. It's a massively overpriced bus replacement service at our expense. The only silver lining is that the embarrassment is Scotland's alone.

[Spitfire2]

carreauchompeur said:

Is this the tram that doesn't go to the airport?

Eh? What's that big station with tramlines at the airport for?????

[pcvdriver]

tim0409 said:

£1 billion to replicate a brilliant bus service (no. 22) on a single route (which incidentally is the last route you would choose). It will also cost more and take longer to reach the airport than the excellent Airlink bus. Complete and utter waste of cash.

I was in Edinburgh today and the trams have also messed with the traffic/pedestrian signals which is going to lead to some serious congestion and more aggravation. Welcome to the Scottish Parliament on wheels.

The Trams project was inherited from the last Labour Government. If we had tried to back out of the deal - us tax payers would have had to pay off all the contractual cancellation fees which would have been tens, if not hundreds of millions of pounds.
What's even more ludicrous is the fact that the tram track were dug up at all back in the 60's. They could have simply been covered in tarmac. Then 50, or so years down the line, they could have been simply uncovered and used again.