Edinburgh tram goes live tomorrow!
Discussion
Edinburger said:
Ha ha let's not make this into an Edinburgh v Glasgow thing (you'd just lose 
) but when artists such as U2, Madonna, Robbie Williams, Take That, Michael Jackson and many more have played at Murrayfield then I think it's reasonable to call it a music venue!
They've all played Hampden as well but it's still a football ground.) but when artists such as U2, Madonna, Robbie Williams, Take That, Michael Jackson and many more have played at Murrayfield then I think it's reasonable to call it a music venue!Edinburger said:
Take ten visitors to Edinburgh and then to Glasgow. Which would they prefer?
Well it won't be Princes St. It says something about the premier street in a city when the best bit is the view out of it.I might be back over on Saturday. The wonderful Leith this time. Yay.
technodup said:
dxg said:
so, if glasgow's underground is the clockwork orange, what are edinburgh's trams going to be? the steamie?
I think that's media b
ks tbh. I've lived in Glasgow 36 years and never heard it called that once. Not even by students.
hairyben said:
What kind of freight is being shipped through the middle of edinburgh that couldn't be shipped around? All I'm thinking is it must be easier to build a new freight rail around edinburgh than it is to build a passenger line through it.
Freight - pretty much anything on the ECML going north/south of Edinburgh. Chemicals, cement, nuclear waste from Torness and so on.There isn't the room for a new line. To the the north, you've got the Forth. To the south, the city is on the foothills of the Pentlands at Bonaly. A line on top of the bypass will have issues with the bends and gradients on the bypass (not to the mention the disruption). A new above ground line through the city is pretty much out of the question given both dense historic development and terrain constraints. There are some old lines in the north of city but the trouble with them is they were built by separate railway companies so there's no connections between them. They generally cross each other at different levels or right angles so linking them now will take up a fair amount of land that isn't available. On top of that some of the alignments have been built upon (including some key roads). And of course locally nobody will want a railway in their back garden. A tunnel would find something a bit more solid than London Clay.
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_edin_t_map/0_edinbur...
Pretty much all that's left of the above now is: the mainline through Waverley in the middle, the South Suburban at the bottom (minus the spur to St Leonards) and the old Caledonian railway that forms today's link to the WCML from Haymarket.
The only alternative to the South Suburban line really is using the Tyne Valley line between Newcastle and Carlisle and the WCML.
Edited by ninja-lewis on Tuesday 10th June 21:22
Edited by ninja-lewis on Tuesday 10th June 21:22
matchmaker said:
technodup said:
dxg said:
so, if glasgow's underground is the clockwork orange, what are edinburgh's trams going to be? the steamie?
I think that's media bks tbh. I've lived in Glasgow 36 years and never heard it called that once. Not even by students.It seems we're not the only ones:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=glasgow+undergrou...
I'm related by adopted family to one of the tram drivers. He said the trams were specced without aircon because of our latitude, and to save money. Our buses don't have aircon, so why would the trams?
I do beg to differ though, as does he.
edited to add, I must ask him about this cornering issue.
I do beg to differ though, as does he.
edited to add, I must ask him about this cornering issue.
ninja-lewis said:
Freight - pretty much anything on the ECML going north/south of Edinburgh. Chemicals, cement, nuclear waste from Torness and so on.
There isn't the room for a new line. To the the north, you've got the Forth. To the south, the city is on the foothills of the Pentlands at Bonaly. A line on top of the bypass will have issues with the bends and gradients on the bypass (not to the mention the disruption). A new above ground line through the city is pretty much out of the question given both dense historic development and terrain constraints. There are some old lines in the north of city but the trouble with them is they were built by separate railway companies so there's no connections between them. They generally cross each other at different levels or right angles so linking them now will take up a fair amount of land that isn't available. On top of that some of the alignments have been built upon (including some key roads). And of course locally nobody will want a railway in their back garden. A tunnel would find something a bit more solid than London Clay.
What precisely would be the issue with a new line following the bypass to some degree through Bonaly? Forgive me I don't know the local area.There isn't the room for a new line. To the the north, you've got the Forth. To the south, the city is on the foothills of the Pentlands at Bonaly. A line on top of the bypass will have issues with the bends and gradients on the bypass (not to the mention the disruption). A new above ground line through the city is pretty much out of the question given both dense historic development and terrain constraints. There are some old lines in the north of city but the trouble with them is they were built by separate railway companies so there's no connections between them. They generally cross each other at different levels or right angles so linking them now will take up a fair amount of land that isn't available. On top of that some of the alignments have been built upon (including some key roads). And of course locally nobody will want a railway in their back garden. A tunnel would find something a bit more solid than London Clay.
So how much are rUK subsidising Holyrood for this ? Given the GERS confirmation of its worse defecit than rUK its worrying that such projects are allowed to go ahead or when they do the overspends of such magnitude do not mean positions become untenable.
Actually didn't Holyrood itself overspend ten fold? Hmm
Actually didn't Holyrood itself overspend ten fold? Hmm
Welshbeef said:
So how much are rUK subsidising Holyrood for this ? Given the GERS confirmation of its worse defecit than rUK its worrying that such projects are allowed to go ahead or when they do the overspends of such magnitude do not mean positions become untenable.
Actually didn't Holyrood itself overspend ten fold? Hmm
By the time these projects get finished the people responsible are retired/moved on. No accountability - I'd imagine.Actually didn't Holyrood itself overspend ten fold? Hmm
andy_s said:
Welshbeef said:
So how much are rUK subsidising Holyrood for this ? Given the GERS confirmation of its worse defecit than rUK its worrying that such projects are allowed to go ahead or when they do the overspends of such magnitude do not mean positions become untenable.
Actually didn't Holyrood itself overspend ten fold? Hmm
By the time these projects get finished the people responsible are retired/moved on. No accountability - I'd imagine.Actually didn't Holyrood itself overspend ten fold? Hmm
Why is he still in position?
pcvdriver said:
hairyben said:
What precisely would be the issue with a new line following the bypass to some degree through Bonaly? Forgive me I don't know the local area.
Topography is the natural enemy..... Bonaly is bordered by the Pentland Hills to the South and Colinton Dell to the North.....It gets worse a bit further around where the A70 crosses the bypass, paralleling to the Water of Leith (the same valley that goes on to become Colinton Dell). At this point you have housing inside the bypass while Juniper Green, Currie and Balerno form a ribbon along the the A70. Short of wholesale and deeply unpopular demolition, you're only options are to build on top of the bypass or go around the end of Balerno.
Building on the bypass is awkward as it descends shortly afterwards - sufficiently so traffic going uphill is notably slow through that section as some vehicles labour their way up. For the same reason, you're ruling out a tunnel giving the topography you have to descend down while also passing under the Water of Leith.
There's a narrow gap between Balerno and the Pentlands although it does mean climbing up a bit or a deep cutting. Once round Balerno, you're then crossing the Carstairs line (for the WCML) and Glasgow lines perpendicularly. Threading your way past Ratho to the reach the Forth Bridge isn't as challenging as the other sections so far although there are plenty of old mine workings in the areas that limit options somewhat. The South Sub is fortunate enough to join the mainline before the Glasgow lines and line to the Forth Bridge split although it does require a turn off for the Carstairs line as it branches between the South Sub Junction and Haymarket.
ninja-lewis said:
Pretty much. Bonaly is a fairly dense suburban so there's no easy route inside the bypass. Around Torphin, the houses run up against the bypass on one side and on the other side you have a solid lump of rock rising up as one of the foothills of the Pentlands.
It gets worse a bit further around where the A70 crosses the bypass, paralleling to the Water of Leith (the same valley that goes on to become Colinton Dell). At this point you have housing inside the bypass while Juniper Green, Currie and Balerno form a ribbon along the the A70. Short of wholesale and deeply unpopular demolition, you're only options are to build on top of the bypass or go around the end of Balerno.
Building on the bypass is awkward as it descends shortly afterwards - sufficiently so traffic going uphill is notably slow through that section as some vehicles labour their way up. For the same reason, you're ruling out a tunnel giving the topography you have to descend down while also passing under the Water of Leith.
There's a narrow gap between Balerno and the Pentlands although it does mean climbing up a bit or a deep cutting. Once round Balerno, you're then crossing the Carstairs line (for the WCML) and Glasgow lines perpendicularly. Threading your way past Ratho to the reach the Forth Bridge isn't as challenging as the other sections so far although there are plenty of old mine workings in the areas that limit options somewhat. The South Sub is fortunate enough to join the mainline before the Glasgow lines and line to the Forth Bridge split although it does require a turn off for the Carstairs line as it branches between the South Sub Junction and Haymarket.
When you guys vote yes you'll have c£150billion debt to service plus a 7-8% deficit to close - these plans for Monorail reminds me of that Simpsons episode man comes into town hey heard you guys got some money don't fix the ruined roads etc what you need is a monorail.... This thread is uncannily like that. It gets worse a bit further around where the A70 crosses the bypass, paralleling to the Water of Leith (the same valley that goes on to become Colinton Dell). At this point you have housing inside the bypass while Juniper Green, Currie and Balerno form a ribbon along the the A70. Short of wholesale and deeply unpopular demolition, you're only options are to build on top of the bypass or go around the end of Balerno.
Building on the bypass is awkward as it descends shortly afterwards - sufficiently so traffic going uphill is notably slow through that section as some vehicles labour their way up. For the same reason, you're ruling out a tunnel giving the topography you have to descend down while also passing under the Water of Leith.
There's a narrow gap between Balerno and the Pentlands although it does mean climbing up a bit or a deep cutting. Once round Balerno, you're then crossing the Carstairs line (for the WCML) and Glasgow lines perpendicularly. Threading your way past Ratho to the reach the Forth Bridge isn't as challenging as the other sections so far although there are plenty of old mine workings in the areas that limit options somewhat. The South Sub is fortunate enough to join the mainline before the Glasgow lines and line to the Forth Bridge split although it does require a turn off for the Carstairs line as it branches between the South Sub Junction and Haymarket.
Pay back the Darian bail out first then the Bank of Scotland and RBS bail outs and your share of govt debt then do as you please.
Cake and eat it....
You wouldn't expect the Manchester trams to have aircon but it was specced on the new ones now in full service. Incidentally when we kicked out the congestion charge here (which was to pay for tram expansion) the city council just took a mortgage out on the system with the EU to pay for the expansion, wonder if they'll ask for their money back when we tell them to do one!
dxg said:
Our whole family (all Glaswegians) have always called it the clockwork orange.
It seems we're not the only ones:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=glasgow+undergrou...
As I said, media bIt seems we're not the only ones:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=glasgow+undergrou...
ks. I'm surprised you've not been chibbed tbh. It's either the underground or the subway, depending on your age. Clockwork Orange smacks of trying too hard. Not something most Glaswegians could be accused of.Do you reside in Kelvinside?
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