London cabbies to protest over smartphone app.

[Kermit power]

DonkeyApple said:

If you can get a new car and it has all the expected assurances such as insurance etc then not a lot.

I'm yet to have an issue with Hailo. About 5 mins before I want to leave home I ping it and a cab arrives and I've never had an issue with it when coming home if I can't flag one off the street. Where it really excels is when you have to go somewhere touristy which is full of Friday Nighters and you don't have to play that irritating game of trying to find the right position to grab the first yellow light.

To be fair to it, it was 3 or 4 years ago, so they may have signed more cabbies up since then, but when I say it didn't work, it worked but told me I'd have to wait over 90 minutes for a cab!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Campo said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Having watched the news, read this thread & discussed it with the wife....

Can anybody, very quickly, please let us know the precise reason black cab owners are up in arms about all of this?

TFL (Transport For London) set licencing rules for Taxis.

Uber appears on the market using a phone app as a Taxi meter - TFL grant them an operators licence as a Private Hire company.

Black Cab drivers protests against TFL for allowing a metered Taxi service to operate outside the rules and regulations they are forced to comply with hence TFL not abiding by their own regulations......

Did you not read the "quickly" bit?

Ok, so bear with me here as I've never lived in London, but in the past were black cabs the only taxis who had a meter fitted?

Hue did all the other taxis manage? Did you just get on & ask for a price on where to go?

[Hackney]

DonkeyApple said:

Out of interest, have you used Hailo? No one seems to actually know about this ap?

I use it all the time.
It's absoltely no use in central London by cabbies' own admission. By the time the one who responded to the punter they've flagged down another, passing cab anyway.
It is useful in areas where cabs are thinner on the ground, outside of the very centre of London.

A tip from a cabbie: if you use it make sure you're in the cab when they send you the bill. The meter and the app are not linked.
So in theory while the meter may say £12 there's nothing to stop the cabbie putting £15, £20 etc in the app. Not that any cabbie would do such a thing though.

[Halb]

Gareth79 said:

While I know that probably nearly all black cabs are legitimate, there is nothing stopping somebody buying one and then just going off and plying for hire. (Although I imagine most taxis have a "patch" and would spot a newcomer?)

Like Stephen Fry?

[Campo]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Did you not read the "quickly" bit?

Ok, so bear with me here as I've never lived in London, but in the past were black cabs the only taxis who had a meter fitted?

Hue did all the other taxis manage? Did you just get on & ask for a price on where to go?

No its ok, I don't mind taking time to give you an answer only for you to be incredibly rude.

[sleep envy]

Gareth79 said:

While I know that probably nearly all black cabs are legitimate, there is nothing stopping somebody buying one and then just going off and plying for hire. (Although I imagine most taxis have a "patch" and would spot a newcomer?)

The meters are hired so if a cab is sold it is removed before changing hands. Also, the PCO plates (internal and external) have to be handed back.

Only way around this is if you were a mechanic at a cab garage where they hire out cabs where you could get easy access to one.

[DonkeyApple]

Kermit power said:

DonkeyApple said:

If you can get a new car and it has all the expected assurances such as insurance etc then not a lot.

I'm yet to have an issue with Hailo. About 5 mins before I want to leave home I ping it and a cab arrives and I've never had an issue with it when coming home if I can't flag one off the street. Where it really excels is when you have to go somewhere touristy which is full of Friday Nighters and you don't have to play that irritating game of trying to find the right position to grab the first yellow light.

To be fair to it, it was 3 or 4 years ago, so they may have signed more cabbies up since then, but when I say it didn't work, it worked but told me I'd have to wait over 90 minutes for a cab!

Screw 90 mins. I'd have walked home.

I find it really good and a great step forward.

[TVR1]

Derek Smith said:

I have a certain sympathy with the black cab drivers. They are governed by all sorts of regulations, they can lose their licence for fairly minor infringements.

But not the Road Traffic Act though? Feck 'em. Move with the tide or you'll be drowned.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Campo said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Did you not read the "quickly" bit?

Ok, so bear with me here as I've never lived in London, but in the past were black cabs the only taxis who had a meter fitted?

How did all the other taxis manage? Did you just get on & ask for a price on where to go?

No its ok, I don't mind taking time to give you an answer only for you to be incredibly rude.

Apologies, I should have put a smilie on the end of that first sentence, I appreciate you taking he time to write all that out but my question above still stands

[audidoody]

Campo said:

Having never used them , do you see what you're being charged as you drive along or do you just get something on your app at the end? Also, can you hop out early if you get stuck in traffic?

How much was the fare and how much is it normally when you get a black cab at the same time of day?

You get a quote on the app when you summon the car and are given the option to accept or reject it. They also warn you when there is surge pricing and you are free to accept or reject the fare. Minutes after the trip has finished you get an email showing all the details of the route (time and distance etc) and an invoice/receipt. The also round the fare DOWN to the nearest pound. And because you've already set up an account with a debit or credit card no money changes hands with the driver.

You can see your route in real time on the app during the journey and you can send a link to anyone waiting for you so they can see where you are and how long you'll take to arrive.

An Über Prius costs me half the price of a black cab from the West End to home (N6) - about six miles.

Just remember to give them the post code of your destination so they can key it into their tom tom!

[HOGEPH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlMMK_PIzUs

[PF62]

Mr_B said:

Private taxis are much worse than black cabs and clueless idiots most of the time.

As a pedestrian in central London my experience is the opposite, with black cabs worst red light jumpers around. Every day on the walk to or from the office there is at least one black cab who has jumped the red, and is still going through the junction when the green man on the crossing is showing.

[Regiment]

With my limited experience of driving through London, black cabs are driven by some of the worst people in the world.

[V8 Fettler]

Prior to the arrival of Satnavs, "The Knowledge" was a mystical - almost religious - rite of passage. Now it looks ridiculous.
A cabbie refused to take me a mile or so across Victoria over 30 years ago, I've never forgiven the whole bunch of them for that. Those little tea huts will be open to all soon.

[creampuff]

I haven't read all the pages of replies so sorry if this has been addressed.

Über appears to use a taximeter. Just one which is connected to a GPS and is programmed in software, unlike the black cab taximeters.

Only black cabs are allowed to use taximeters.

[0a]

Black cabs are a closed shop that is being broken open by technology. Sat navs work perfectly well in my experience - living in London for 9 years and taking loads of cabs/private hire towards the end of it showed there is now little between a black can and a private hire driver. The excuse for the closed shop has now gone.

The TFL rules are irrelevant - as technology moves it changes markets and makes previous regulation irrelevant until it catches up. Why should the public be beholden to old fashioned regulation purely to protect a closed shop? If need be change the regulation, don't kill the technology.

[creampuff]

0a said:

Black cabs are a closed shop that is being broken open by technology. Sat navs work perfectly well in my experience - living in London for 9 years and taking loads of cabs/private hire towards the end of it showed there is now little between a black can and a private hire driver. The excuse for the closed shop has now gone.

Uber are just another private higher operator. Or a way for private hire operators to get organised with a centralised booking system.

The way fares are calculated by Uber seems to me to be the same as a taximeter as it is based on time and distance of the actual journey and not pre-calculated.

That is unlawful. Only black cabs can use taximeters.

It's as unlawful as if a private hire operator just pulled a taximeter out of a black cab and put it in their minicab.

If Uber were to apply flat fares the same as when you phone for a mini cab then that would be lawful.

FYI I have no particular reason to support black cabs. I almost never take one. I take pre booked minicabs a lot more. Uber just needs to work the same as all other minicabs when fares are calculated.

Edited by creampuff on Sunday 15th June 20:33

[0a]

creampuff said:

Uber are just another private higher operator. Or a way for private hire operators to get organised with a centralised booking system.

The way fares are calculated by Uber seems to me to be the same as a taximeter.

That is unlawful.

If Uber were to apply flat fares the same as when you phone for a mini cab then that would be lawful.

Change the law then... technology has to drive legal change. We should not retain legislation that prevents process just because it also protects one particular group's income (at the expense of the customer).

[creampuff]

0a said:

Change the law then... technology has to drive legal change. We should not retain legislation that prevents process just because it also protects one particular group's income (at the expense of the customer).

Why change the law? The law is not holding back technological progress here. Uber can do exactly what they are doing now, provided they apply pre-calculated fares.

[scenario8]

But why does it actually matter (to the wider public and to consumers) if the Uber system is a meter?