London cabbies to protest over smartphone app.
Discussion
Black cabs have the Hailo app - https://hailocab.com/london
They were just moaning because they are union driven and they see their monopoly threatened.
They were just moaning because they are union driven and they see their monopoly threatened.
I thought I would give the Uber app a go on Saturday night, well Sunday morning 01:00 to be precise.
Easy to book the cab, showed us who was coming to pick us up (his photo, name and car reg) and gave an accurate countdown as to when he would arrive.
App let us know when he was outside, driver called me as well.
Journey was fine and quite a bit cheaper than by black cab or probably by other minicab (£11 from Archway to Kilburn). Best bit was that as the app is linked to my Paypal account no cash had to change hands.
I was then emailed a receipt from Uber which again gave driver's name, photo and registration number. It also included a map of the route, journey time and average speed.
Very impressed with the service and will use it again!
Easy to book the cab, showed us who was coming to pick us up (his photo, name and car reg) and gave an accurate countdown as to when he would arrive.
App let us know when he was outside, driver called me as well.
Journey was fine and quite a bit cheaper than by black cab or probably by other minicab (£11 from Archway to Kilburn). Best bit was that as the app is linked to my Paypal account no cash had to change hands.
I was then emailed a receipt from Uber which again gave driver's name, photo and registration number. It also included a map of the route, journey time and average speed.
Very impressed with the service and will use it again!
scenario8 said:
But why does it actually matter (to the wider public and to consumers) if the Uber system is a meter?
It doesn't.As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars.
As a passenger needing to get from A to B, why would you care about the different rules each is governed by? You just need a lift.
As long as the driver has been checked out as regards the DBS & has a current relevant licence, what do you care if one can ply for hire and be flagged down and the other can't?
The law needs updating & if this is the technology that forces that, then good.
Hackney drivers are arguing over a minor technicality. Don't like it? Then become an Uber driver.
Centurion07 said:
Hackney drivers are arguing over a minor technicality. Don't like it? Then become an Uber driver.
I don't think a black cab driver is going to like having a fully auditable account of all his journeys and takings do you?It's probably the main reason they are pissed off.
MajorProblem said:
Centurion07 said:
Hackney drivers are arguing over a minor technicality. Don't like it? Then become an Uber driver.
I don't think a black cab driver is going to like having a fully auditable account of all his journeys and takings do you?It's probably the main reason they are pissed off.
Centurion07 said:
Hackney drivers are arguing over a minor technicality. Don't like it? Then become an Uber driver.
I wouldn't call minicabs using a taximeter a "minor technicality". I'd call it a fundamental differentiation between a black cab and a minicab. For the point of view of the passenger:
- Black cabs you can get off the street and they use a taximeter
- Minicabs you pre-book and you get a fixed price
I almost always take minicabs and not black cabs but I don't see why minicabs should get to use a taximeter just because they happen to get booked off a smartphone app. Why not change all the rules then? Allow them to pick up off the street? Allow anybody to use a real physical taximeter? Let Hackney carriages drive around in a crapped out 1998 Mondeo instead of a black cab?
creampuff said:
I wouldn't call minicabs using a taximeter a "minor technicality". I'd call it a fundamental differentiation between a black cab and a minicab.
For the point of view of the passenger:
- Black cabs you can get off the street and they use a taximeter
- Minicabs you pre-book and you get a fixed price
ALL passengers want the same thing; to have a car take them from where they are, to where they want to be. I bet they couldn't care less how the fare is worked out and does it actually matter if the fare is calculated via a physical meter fitted to the car, or GPS on a smartphone? Of course it doesn't. LEGALLY it does (maybe), but as far as passengers are concerned? Nope.For the point of view of the passenger:
- Black cabs you can get off the street and they use a taximeter
- Minicabs you pre-book and you get a fixed price
Rates for hackney cabs in my area are set by the council, so it's not the driver's fault that passengers end up paying s
tloads more than if they used a private hire car, but what's the difference in service to the consumer though? Diddly-squat. As has been mentioned, the laws surrounding hackney cabs are outdated and long overdue for change.
Centurion07 said:
It doesn't.
As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars. .
So you would like to have lower entrance costs than Hackney Carriages, but don't like the limitations of a private hire licence, such as not being able to use a taxi meter?As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars. .
0a said:
Change the law then... technology has to drive legal change. We should not retain legislation that prevents process just because it also protects one particular group's income (at the expense of the customer).
Although, you remove the tariff that controls Black Taxis and you'll soon learn how it regulated the minicab industry to be cheaper. My real concern is that you only have to look at major cities which do not have a regulated meter system and rather unsurprisingly minicab rates are high. The reality is that the black can system keeps fares down and gives choice.
Centurion07 said:
ALL passengers want the same thing; to have a car take them from where they are, to where they want to be. I bet they couldn't care less how the fare is worked out and does it actually matter if the fare is calculated via a physical meter fitted to the car, or GPS on a smartphone? Of course it doesn't. LEGALLY it does (maybe), but as far as passengers are concerned? Nope.
Maximum Rates for hackney cabs in my area are set by the council, so it's not the driver's fault that passengers end up paying stloads more than if they used a private hire car, but what's the difference in service to the consumer though? Diddly-squat.
As has been mentioned, the laws surrounding hackney cabs are outdated and long overdue for change.
Fixed that for you. There is nothing to stop the hackneys charging less than the meter if they wanted to, but they don't, as as soon as word gets around that some charge less people will start walking up the rank trying to find the cheapest. All charging the same keeps the rank etiquette of using the 1st vehicle on the rank working.Maximum Rates for hackney cabs in my area are set by the council, so it's not the driver's fault that passengers end up paying s
tloads more than if they used a private hire car, but what's the difference in service to the consumer though? Diddly-squat. As has been mentioned, the laws surrounding hackney cabs are outdated and long overdue for change.
We will have to see what the Government does with Hackney/PH laws now that the Law Commission have carried out their review. Early indication was that they would recommend getting rid of the distinction between Hackney and PH, but the report now indicates keeping them separate.
creampuff said:
Centurion07 said:
It doesn't.
As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars. .
So you would like to have lower entrance costs than Hackney Carriages, but don't like the limitations of a private hire licence, such as not being able to use a taxi meter?As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars. .
Wait until Uber teams up with (gets bought out by) Google self driving cars. They'll have something to complain about then when the labour cost goes down to zero and are priced out of the market.
I used Uber twice in San Francisco and was mightily impressed by it. Car outside within 2 minutes. Driver offered me free water. Dropped me off without having to pay a silly tip (can choose to pay this or not after you've left the car), and then emailed with the route taken (so we can see the driver didn't take a long route) and the bill which was much cheaper than a regular taxi, and not much more than a bus.
I used Uber twice in San Francisco and was mightily impressed by it. Car outside within 2 minutes. Driver offered me free water. Dropped me off without having to pay a silly tip (can choose to pay this or not after you've left the car), and then emailed with the route taken (so we can see the driver didn't take a long route) and the bill which was much cheaper than a regular taxi, and not much more than a bus.
Centurion07 said:
creampuff said:
Centurion07 said:
It doesn't.
As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars. .
So you would like to have lower entrance costs than Hackney Carriages, but don't like the limitations of a private hire licence, such as not being able to use a taxi meter?As a private hire driver myself, I still don't see why there is a clearly regulated seperation between hackneys and private hire cars. .
Those of is old enough remember London back in the days of curb crawlers and made up numbers and no one wants that back. We also know that the black can fares cap what PH can get away with so want to keep the black cab system if only for that.
creampuff said:
Centurion07 said:
Hackney drivers are arguing over a minor technicality. Don't like it? Then become an Uber driver.
I wouldn't call minicabs using a taximeter a "minor technicality". I'd call it a fundamental differentiation between a black cab and a minicab. For the point of view of the passenger:
- Black cabs you can get off the street and they use a taximeter
- Minicabs you pre-book and you get a fixed price
I almost always take minicabs and not black cabs but I don't see why minicabs should get to use a taximeter just because they happen to get booked off a smartphone app. Why not change all the rules then? Allow them to pick up off the street? Allow anybody to use a real physical taximeter? Let Hackney carriages drive around in a crapped out 1998 Mondeo instead of a black cab?
Since when was being a monopoly acceptable?
elster said:
That may be the view to a passenger from London, the rest of the country has Private Hire that use meters.
Since when was being a monopoly acceptable?
But they aren't "private hire that use meters" they are Hackney Carriages. Their licence displayed on the outside of the vehicle even says "Hackney Carriage". The differentiation with London is they don't have to use black cabs. Their Hackney Carriage licence is still different to a minicab pre-booked private hire licence. Since when was being a monopoly acceptable?
It is quite simple:
You get a cab off the street, you don't need to pre-book and they use a taximeter.
You pre-book a minicab by whatever means and they turn up and charge a fixed price.
The fact that you have booked a minicab on a smartphone with Uber doesn't make a minicab using a taximeter which just happenes to be based around a GPS signal rather than a device measing tyre rotation either legal or OK. I could just as well make up a smartphone up called f
ker which allows people to book illegal migrants to drive untaxed vehicles with no insurance while earning £2/day. It has nothing to do with technology why the way Uber works is unlawful. I don't see any problem or anything unlawful about Uber being used to book minicabs provided they offer fixed fares.
creampuff said:
You pre-book a minicab by whatever means and they turn up and charge a fixed price.
IF you have asked for a quote, then the driver is not allowed to exceed that figure. However, most passengers just phone up to make the booking without asking for a price, so we turn up and use the odometer to calculate the fare. Pretty much identical to a taximeter, no?creampuff said:
The fact that you have booked a minicab on a smartphone with Uber doesn't make a minicab using a taximeter which just happenes to be based around a GPS signal rather than a device measing tyre rotation either legal or OK. I could just as well make up a smartphone up called fker which allows people to book illegal migrants to drive untaxed vehicles with no insurance while earning £2/day. It has nothing to do with technology why the way Uber works is unlawful.
Now THAT app would be ridiculous. Uber use drivers that hold the correct private hire driver's licence and, I'm assuming, Uber will check or have access to the vehicle's documents as regards it's use as a PH vehicle. The ONLY thing that anyone has any basis for moaning about Uber is the thing about what constitutes a meter.ker which allows people to book illegal migrants to drive untaxed vehicles with no insurance while earning £2/day. It has nothing to do with technology why the way Uber works is unlawful.Centurion07 said:
The ONLY thing that anyone has any basis for moaning about Uber is the thing about what constitutes a meter.
And that is all I am moaning about. The argument has been put forward by Uber that the LTDA protest is about "standing in the way of technology". Minicabs using taximeters is unlawful and it is not a case of "I did it on my smartphone therefore it has got to be OK, 'cos a smartphone is high-tech innit". This would be solved by Uber booked taxis charging fixed fares.
creampuff said:
Centurion07 said:
The ONLY thing that anyone has any basis for moaning about Uber is the thing about what constitutes a meter.
And that is all I am moaning about. The argument has been put forward by Uber that the LTDA protest is about "standing in the way of technology". Minicabs using taximeters is unlawful and it is not a case of "I did it on my smartphone therefore it has got to be OK, 'cos a smartphone is high-tech innit". This would be solved by Uber booked taxis charging fixed fares.
Same thing with big corporations and tax. If the law allows them to shift their money around various offshore/foreign offices so they pay less tax, that's the law's problem not theirs. You can argue it's morally wrong, sure, but illegal? 'Fraid not.
creampuff said:
Centurion07 said:
The ONLY thing that anyone has any basis for moaning about Uber is the thing about what constitutes a meter.
And that is all I am moaning about. The argument has been put forward by Uber that the LTDA protest is about "standing in the way of technology". Minicabs using taximeters is unlawful and it is not a case of "I did it on my smartphone therefore it has got to be OK, 'cos a smartphone is high-tech innit". This would be solved by Uber booked taxis charging fixed fares.
scenario8 said:
And yet, beyond "the law says..." I still cannot understand why it can possibly matter if Uber constitues a meter or not so another "solution" would be for the law to be brought up to date and modern restrictions (such that any are necessary) brought into play.
The law says minicabs need to be prebooked. The law says I need to insure my car, even if it is just parked on a quiet street doing noting. The law says your employer is not allowed to pay you £1.50/hour under threat of importing cheap labour from Somalia to do your job. "The law says...." is quite a good reason for doing a lot of things because there was a reason for that law to be enacted in the first place. Particularly when there is an established licencing system for both black cabs and minicabs and the reason for changing the licencing laws is no better than "Uber have developed a new smartphone app"
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff