London cabbies to protest over smartphone app.
Discussion
Campo said:
There wasn't a strike, just a protest. I'm partly with the cabbies on this one.
Uber is a metered taxi service yet the don't have to follow the same rules and regulations as the black cab trade. That's what the protest is about.
Addison Lee are rife in London but they don't use taxi meters, they have a fare fixed before the journey.
Its a simple argument, the backstory being there are lots of very large investment firms backing Uber who stand to make a huge amount of money if they are allowed to operate in London and other Uk cities. They don't pay any taxes (again against TFL rules for a Licenced metered taxi service in London) and the majority of their cars are unsuitable for disabled people.
The cabbies are making a stand against TFL not Uber - as it happens Addison Lee are most likely to be the worst affected if Uber are allowed to operate as a metered service.
As for Uber offering to allow Black Taxis to join their ranks - laughable PR stunt , nothing more.
I rarely use Black cabs or minicabs in London as they're just too expensive but I'm on their side in this one.
What extra licensing costs do the hackney carriages have over a normal minicab? Why does London not allow minicab's metered units but the rest of the UK does? Uber is a metered taxi service yet the don't have to follow the same rules and regulations as the black cab trade. That's what the protest is about.
Addison Lee are rife in London but they don't use taxi meters, they have a fare fixed before the journey.
Its a simple argument, the backstory being there are lots of very large investment firms backing Uber who stand to make a huge amount of money if they are allowed to operate in London and other Uk cities. They don't pay any taxes (again against TFL rules for a Licenced metered taxi service in London) and the majority of their cars are unsuitable for disabled people.
The cabbies are making a stand against TFL not Uber - as it happens Addison Lee are most likely to be the worst affected if Uber are allowed to operate as a metered service.
As for Uber offering to allow Black Taxis to join their ranks - laughable PR stunt , nothing more.
I rarely use Black cabs or minicabs in London as they're just too expensive but I'm on their side in this one.
Why is the tax affairs of a private company any more relevant than the 'cash only' affairs of a hackney carriage?
replying to gareth79,
You need your taxi registration/licence number displayed on the back of the cab (white plate thingy - can't remember the proper name). You try and ply for trade without one and see how long you last. Cabbies are fiercely protective of their trade, as we're seeing, and will report it straight away.
With some of the big cab dispatch companies (dial-a-cab/xeta/etc) you can also get a photo of the driver picking you up.
Have some sympathy with the black cabbies though, they're forced to buy certain vehicles that can cost in excess of £30k new and have no real say on how much to charge and have to maintain their vehicles to a much higher standard than a normal minicab plus dealing with the joys of tfl only for them to fudge the issue and show little leadership. Is it any wonder they're pissed?
You need your taxi registration/licence number displayed on the back of the cab (white plate thingy - can't remember the proper name). You try and ply for trade without one and see how long you last. Cabbies are fiercely protective of their trade, as we're seeing, and will report it straight away.
With some of the big cab dispatch companies (dial-a-cab/xeta/etc) you can also get a photo of the driver picking you up.
Have some sympathy with the black cabbies though, they're forced to buy certain vehicles that can cost in excess of £30k new and have no real say on how much to charge and have to maintain their vehicles to a much higher standard than a normal minicab plus dealing with the joys of tfl only for them to fudge the issue and show little leadership. Is it any wonder they're pissed?
How does Uber calculate the fare then? The only 3 ways a fare is set that I can think of are
A: Is it a fixed price based on the pick-up and destination points when you make the booking, so it doesn't matter what route the driver takes it will cost you the price given when you made the booking.
B: It costs a fixed amount per x distance. I.e £1 for every mile.
C: The fare is calculated by how many yards the vehicle moves / or how long it is stopped/very slow moving. This would then be same as a traditional taximeter the only difference being a taximeter takes distance travelled from the gearbox/ecu and Uber would be doing it via GPS.
From the attitude of the trade I would expect it to be C, as A and B (and C in many areas outside of London) are already used by the PH trade.
A: Is it a fixed price based on the pick-up and destination points when you make the booking, so it doesn't matter what route the driver takes it will cost you the price given when you made the booking.
B: It costs a fixed amount per x distance. I.e £1 for every mile.
C: The fare is calculated by how many yards the vehicle moves / or how long it is stopped/very slow moving. This would then be same as a traditional taximeter the only difference being a taximeter takes distance travelled from the gearbox/ecu and Uber would be doing it via GPS.
From the attitude of the trade I would expect it to be C, as A and B (and C in many areas outside of London) are already used by the PH trade.
W99KSY said:
Used this recently in New York - fantastic service and only had to wait a few minutes - much quicker and easier than trying to hail down a yellow cab. Price also moves basis supply and demand which I think is a good idea, rather than just flat fares.
Have you tried Hailo?A perfect ap for London and NY.
And for London it is far less rapey and deathtrappy.
lamboman100 said:
London black taxi cabs are the best in the world. Bar none.
But their days are numbered. Tech will kill them. First, Uber. And then Google (driverless cars).
Taxi drivers all over the world are swimming against an unstoppable tide.
Tech is definitely a problem but they have two options. They can use tech to their advantage or they can go all classic British union and be killed by it. But their days are numbered. Tech will kill them. First, Uber. And then Google (driverless cars).
Taxi drivers all over the world are swimming against an unstoppable tide.
I no longer bother driving in London. I use the Addison Lee ap or the Hailo one. Both are good and AL is the fallback if the family are with me, otherwise I'll walk.
One thing I can tell people at the moment is that AL is useless for moving round the City and Weat End as all the roadworks mean that they can't get to you on time and then can't get you where you are going efficiently. It's quite interesting but at the moment I can catagorically say that the human brain is far superior to satnav.
Hailo is the first bit of tech that has worked for black cabs. It is a genuine step forward. I despise trying to move around London and fighting for cabs against tourists, this removes that problem instantly.
muffinmenace said:
What extra licensing costs do the hackney carriages have over a normal minicab? Why does London not allow minicab's metered units but the rest of the UK does?
Why is the tax affairs of a private company any more relevant than the 'cash only' affairs of a hackney carriage?
Its all hereWhy is the tax affairs of a private company any more relevant than the 'cash only' affairs of a hackney carriage?
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-h...
Rules for Taxi drivers and Taxi vehicle licence
Rules for Private Hire drivers and Private hire vehicle licence
As you'll see the rules for the Taxi driver and Taxi vehicle are much more comprehensive and detailed than the rules for the Private Hire equivalent.
Uber insist they are a private hire firm (which I feel they can't be as they use a Taxi meter system) hence they don't need to comply with all the Taxi driver and Taxi Vehicle rules.
This is the crux of the argument.
I've been listening to London Taxi drivers and Uber drivers calling into the LBC radio show for the last couple of days. Both agree things always move with the times but the Taxi drivers all insists TFL need to stick to their own rules regarding what does and doesn't constitute a Taxi.
Plenty of other cities have similar rules as to what is a Taxi and what is a Minicab/Private hire. Hence Uber being banned in other large cities and protests in France, Germany, New York etc...
Is it wrong for a trade to try to protect themselves when rules they abide by are ignored by the competition and the regulator??
As for TFL - shower of idiots. They should not have licenced Uber until it was established whether its metering system constitutes being a Taxi service. Instead they've licenced them and let them loose and are now going through the High Courts to establish this.
I wouldn't be surprised if some rather large sums of money are involved behind the scenes with this debacle.
Campo said:
I wouldn't be surprised if some rather large sums of money are involved behind the scenes with this debacle.
I buy many millions of pounds of stuff for them - I can tell you I'd be utterly incredulous if large amounts - nay, any amount - of money changed hands. It's not like the movies, campo.iphonedyou said:
I buy many millions of pounds of stuff for them - I can tell you I'd be utterly incredulous if large amounts - nay, any amount - of money changed hands. It's not like the movies, campo.
I mean as in lawyers getting rich yet again, not mob backhanders and concrete boots in the Thames for Boris Johnson 
iphonedyou said:
Campo said:
I wouldn't be surprised if some rather large sums of money are involved behind the scenes with this debacle.
I buy many millions of pounds of stuff for them - I can tell you I'd be utterly incredulous if large amounts - nay, any amount - of money changed hands. It's not like the movies, campo. Large contract requiring approval of civil servants against normal legislation? It's got all the right ingredients for a scandal. I am sure a few are doing very well off the back of this. toohuge said:
Large contract requiring approval of civil servants against normal legislation? It's got all the right ingredients for a scandal. I am sure a few are doing very well off the back of this. 
TopOnePercent said:
Technology has rendered The Knowledge, and therefore the black cab, redundant.
Being Luddite didn't help Ned in the slightest and it won't help the black cabs.
The gig is up fellas. No more sky high over the odds fares. Those days are done.
The fares are set by TFL not the cabbies, that's half the problem.Being Luddite didn't help Ned in the slightest and it won't help the black cabs.
The gig is up fellas. No more sky high over the odds fares. Those days are done.
As for the knowledge, that's also insisted upon by TFL as part of the Taxi licence in London.
Sat navs are getting better but an iPhone is no substitute for local knowledge, I see this every day with Addison Lee drivers being a menace on the roads. That said the London cabbie is quite fond of the sudden u turn or emergency stop to pick up a fare.
How do uber drivers get on with using their iPhones whilst driving? I thought it was illegal unless hands free?
valiant said:
replying to gareth79,
You need your taxi registration/licence number displayed on the back of the cab (white plate thingy - can't remember the proper name). You try and ply for trade without one and see how long you last. Cabbies are fiercely protective of their trade, as we're seeing, and will report it straight away.
With some of the big cab dispatch companies (dial-a-cab/xeta/etc) you can also get a photo of the driver picking you up.
Have some sympathy with the black cabbies though, they're forced to buy certain vehicles that can cost in excess of £30k new and have no real say on how much to charge and have to maintain their vehicles to a much higher standard than a normal minicab plus dealing with the joys of tfl only for them to fudge the issue and show little leadership. Is it any wonder they're pissed?
If it's such sYou need your taxi registration/licence number displayed on the back of the cab (white plate thingy - can't remember the proper name). You try and ply for trade without one and see how long you last. Cabbies are fiercely protective of their trade, as we're seeing, and will report it straight away.
With some of the big cab dispatch companies (dial-a-cab/xeta/etc) you can also get a photo of the driver picking you up.
Have some sympathy with the black cabbies though, they're forced to buy certain vehicles that can cost in excess of £30k new and have no real say on how much to charge and have to maintain their vehicles to a much higher standard than a normal minicab plus dealing with the joys of tfl only for them to fudge the issue and show little leadership. Is it any wonder they're pissed?
t why keep doing it?Sell the expensive black cab and sign up with Uber no?
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