Islam and the West

[supersingle]

Ali G said:

Well, far more trouble has been caused in this country by non-Muslim indigenous types than by followers of Islam to date.

I would suspect that once the filthy and corrupting ways of the West take their toll on the younger Muslim generation(s), then the elders may then start to pull their hair out by the beardful.

There is no way that I can see a Sharia-type imposition placed on the filthy western ways that we hold so dear, which would not result in a swift and liberal knee to the groin of those who would propose such a regime.

Live and let live - cuts both ways until such policy meets with opposition, and of course within the acceptable norms of our society!

That's a pretty complacent point of view. I'm sure the Byzantines and Persians thought the same once upon a time.

[RemyMartin]

Personally speaking,fk integration. Fruitless exercise.

[Grumfutock]

How apt.

Sepp Blatter has now claimed that questioning the Qatar World Cup is Racist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27762435

A perfect example of "you cant say anything about that part of the world"

[alock]

Mermaid said:

Agreed, so who is going to go 1st mocking Islam? Thought so..........

If a 100,000 did so everyday, it could work

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Moha...

[Ali G]

supersingle said:

Ali G said:

Well, far more trouble has been caused in this country by non-Muslim indigenous types than by followers of Islam to date.

I would suspect that once the filthy and corrupting ways of the West take their toll on the younger Muslim generation(s), then the elders may then start to pull their hair out by the beardful.

There is no way that I can see a Sharia-type imposition placed on the filthy western ways that we hold so dear, which would not result in a swift and liberal knee to the groin of those who would propose such a regime.

Live and let live - cuts both ways until such policy meets with opposition, and of course within the acceptable norms of our society!

That's a pretty complacent point of view. I'm sure the Byzantines and Persians thought the same once upon a time.

Well, happy to be complacent!

The complacent, lazy and indolent never gave anyone any trouble - it's those 'go-getters' that cause all the grief - waking up sleeping dogs - and all that.

Now, if I remember correctly, the once mighty Persia with all of its advanced scientific 'know how' fell foul of 'religion' did it not?

And how it fell!

If you are looking for 'fundamentals' in society, then 'religion' is always fundamentally at odds with scientific discovery, and those who are 'empowered' by the politics of religion are therefore opposed to 'learning' other than that which supports their scriptures.

It may have something to do with it being easier for most to 'believe' that it is for the few who are able to do the 'understanding/discovery' bit.

But, ultimately, its all down to power and control, by the few, over the many, to the advantage of those 'in charge'

Here endeth the sermon.

[colin_p]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

How can you be so naive?

Tolerance for the completely intolerant, great idea.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." Winston Churchill

[DonkeyApple]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

I agree but it is also important to note that no two major doctrines can live in harmony together unless one dominates the other in terms of population.

[Grumfutock]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

Hmmmmmm now where have I heard that before? Oh yea, now I remember.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO725Hbzfls

Didn't work then, wont work now.

[Ali G]

DonkeyApple said:

I agree but it is also important to note that no two major doctrines can live in harmony together unless one dominates the other in terms of population.

Only if there is a significant difference in their 'belief systems' and I'm not sure that Islam - as portrayed - is such.

However, all religions are batting on a sticky wicket when brought into the harsh reality of science.

Then again, whether it's religion, economics, or something else, there will always be one 'gang' which thinks it's better and deserves more of the 'cake' and Porches/Virgins in Heaven!

[DonkeyApple]

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree but it is also important to note that no two major doctrines can live in harmony together unless one dominates the other in terms of population.

Only if there is a significant difference in their 'belief systems' and I'm not sure that Islam - as portrayed - is such.

However, all religions are batting on a sticky wicket when brought into the harsh reality of science.

Then again, whether it's religion, economics, or something else, there will always be one 'gang' which thinks it's better and deserves more of the 'cake' and Porches/Virgins in Heaven!

Differences need only be the shape of a hat, sadly.

We slaughtered the Catholics over here. Catholics slaughtered Muslims and vice versa. Sunnis slaughter Shias. The beloved Buddhist slaughters Christians, Hindus slaughter Muslims and vice versa. And Catholics and CofEs slaughter Hindus.

It's endless.

Why aren't the Jews in that list? Arguably because for 2000 years they have been dispersed and in insufficient numbers to do what everyone does.

If we look at the history books, outside of trading hubs where money is the dominant religion that quashes all others the only time peace is prevalent for extended periods is when one the population of one doctrine dwarfs all others and does not feel threatened. (Of course, scapegoating still remains as a threat in times of economic downturn).

[Ali G]

DonkeyApple said:

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree but it is also important to note that no two major doctrines can live in harmony together unless one dominates the other in terms of population.

Only if there is a significant difference in their 'belief systems' and I'm not sure that Islam - as portrayed - is such.

However, all religions are batting on a sticky wicket when brought into the harsh reality of science.

Then again, whether it's religion, economics, or something else, there will always be one 'gang' which thinks it's better and deserves more of the 'cake' and Porches/Virgins in Heaven!

Differences need only be the shape of a hat, sadly.

We slaughtered the Catholics over here. Catholics slaughtered Muslims and vice versa. Sunnis slaughter Shias. The beloved Buddhist slaughters Christians, Hindus slaughter Muslims and vice versa. And Catholics and CofEs slaughter Hindus.

It's endless.

Why aren't the Jews in that list? Arguably because for 2000 years they have been dispersed and in insufficient numbers to do what everyone does.

If we look at the history books, outside of trading hubs where money is the dominant religion that quashes all others the only time peace is prevalent for extended periods is when one the population of one doctrine dwarfs all others and does not feel threatened. (Of course, scapegoating still remains as a threat in times of economic downturn).

Ahem, cough, cough.

Clears throat.

You may have missed something regarding those who, inter alia are generally well educated, and in history lent/provided finance to the Kings/Queens of Europe.

Notwithstanding that as part of their 'belief system' are their 'God's Chosen Race'

How nice to have such a belief system!

Not sure who that reminds me of...

Pogroms etc.

[gpo746]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

I tried doing these sort of satire, ironic laden posts.
trouble is most people don't get it and think you are being serious when you post such stuff.

[DonkeyApple]

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree but it is also important to note that no two major doctrines can live in harmony together unless one dominates the other in terms of population.

Only if there is a significant difference in their 'belief systems' and I'm not sure that Islam - as portrayed - is such.

However, all religions are batting on a sticky wicket when brought into the harsh reality of science.

Then again, whether it's religion, economics, or something else, there will always be one 'gang' which thinks it's better and deserves more of the 'cake' and Porches/Virgins in Heaven!

Differences need only be the shape of a hat, sadly.

We slaughtered the Catholics over here. Catholics slaughtered Muslims and vice versa. Sunnis slaughter Shias. The beloved Buddhist slaughters Christians, Hindus slaughter Muslims and vice versa. And Catholics and CofEs slaughter Hindus.

It's endless.

Why aren't the Jews in that list? Arguably because for 2000 years they have been dispersed and in insufficient numbers to do what everyone does.

If we look at the history books, outside of trading hubs where money is the dominant religion that quashes all others the only time peace is prevalent for extended periods is when one the population of one doctrine dwarfs all others and does not feel threatened. (Of course, scapegoating still remains as a threat in times of economic downturn).

Ahem, cough, cough.

Clears throat.

You may have missed something regarding those who, inter alia are generally well educated, and in history lent/provided finance to the Kings/Queens of Europe.

Notwithstanding that as part of their 'belief system' are their 'God's Chosen Race'

How nice to have such a belief system!

Not sure who that reminds me of...

Pogroms etc.

Money is a religion. Put it in that context and the story runs true.

Plus, I did reference scapegoating. Which is what butchering the group who lent you money you can't repay has been an enjoyable past time for Europeans, whether Jews or Templars, the reason for the nights of the long knives lies in debt as opposed to more conventional religions.

[Ali G]

DonkeyApple said:

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

I agree but it is also important to note that no two major doctrines can live in harmony together unless one dominates the other in terms of population.

Only if there is a significant difference in their 'belief systems' and I'm not sure that Islam - as portrayed - is such.

However, all religions are batting on a sticky wicket when brought into the harsh reality of science.

Then again, whether it's religion, economics, or something else, there will always be one 'gang' which thinks it's better and deserves more of the 'cake' and Porches/Virgins in Heaven!

Differences need only be the shape of a hat, sadly.

We slaughtered the Catholics over here. Catholics slaughtered Muslims and vice versa. Sunnis slaughter Shias. The beloved Buddhist slaughters Christians, Hindus slaughter Muslims and vice versa. And Catholics and CofEs slaughter Hindus.

It's endless.

Why aren't the Jews in that list? Arguably because for 2000 years they have been dispersed and in insufficient numbers to do what everyone does.

If we look at the history books, outside of trading hubs where money is the dominant religion that quashes all others the only time peace is prevalent for extended periods is when one the population of one doctrine dwarfs all others and does not feel threatened. (Of course, scapegoating still remains as a threat in times of economic downturn).

Ahem, cough, cough.

Clears throat.

You may have missed something regarding those who, inter alia are generally well educated, and in history lent/provided finance to the Kings/Queens of Europe.

Notwithstanding that as part of their 'belief system' are their 'God's Chosen Race'

How nice to have such a belief system!

Not sure who that reminds me of...

Pogroms etc.

Money is a religion. Put it in that context and the story runs true.

Plus, I did reference scapegoating. Which is what butchering the group who lent you money you can't repay has been an enjoyable past time for Europeans, whether Jews or Templars, the reason for the nights of the long knives lies in debt as opposed to more conventional religions.

We're getting more into 'philosophy' now with your 'money is a religion' - which I would dispute.

As for the rest, well its down to 'power', 'envy' and other such base human motives.

As for the 'Knights Templar' - well your guess is probably better than mine as to why they were (all) slaughtered (allegedly)

Anyhoo - we're now well off topic!

[DonkeyApple]

Ali G said:

We're getting more into 'philosophy' now with your 'money is a religion' - which I would dispute.

As for the rest, well its down to 'power', 'envy' and other such base human motives.

As for the 'Knights Templar' - well your guess is probably better than mine as to why they were (all) slaughtered (allegedly)

Anyhoo - we're now well off topic!

Friday the 13th. Night of the long knives. The French King had his pet Pope round up and kill the Templars for heresy because the French king had borrowed too much from the Templars and didn't want to repay.

Same as happens with the Jews through the Middle Ages in the UK, Spain, France, Italy and anywhere where the Jews were used to circumnavigate usury laws.

But the relevance of money is that too little and religion becomes the excuse to blame others and enough of it and religions co-exist. Hence why the only places where % of religions is not a friction is at trade centres where people are busy making money and doing business rather than looking for problems.

[Mermaid]

Ali G said:

We're getting more into 'philosophy' now with your 'money is a religion' - which I would dispute.
Anyhoo - we're now well off topic!

Whilst off topic, money is thicker than blood.

[Ali G]

DonkeyApple said:

Ali G said:

We're getting more into 'philosophy' now with your 'money is a religion' - which I would dispute.

As for the rest, well its down to 'power', 'envy' and other such base human motives.

As for the 'Knights Templar' - well your guess is probably better than mine as to why they were (all) slaughtered (allegedly)

Anyhoo - we're now well off topic!

Friday the 13th. Night of the long knives. The French King had his pet Pope round up and kill the Templars for heresy because the French king had borrowed too much from the Templars and didn't want to repay.

Same as happens with the Jews through the Middle Ages in the UK, Spain, France, Italy and anywhere where the Jews were used to circumnavigate usury laws.

But the relevance of money is that too little and religion becomes the excuse to blame others and enough of it and religions co-exist. Hence why the only places where % of religions is not a friction is at trade centres where people are busy making money and doing business rather than looking for problems.

Not much to disagree with there - although as should be recognised - with money comes MIGHT - and history tells us that this 'might' may need to be used with care - which it may not have been - again, this is OT

And whilst we in the West went through the Renaissance period in the Middle-Ages (a re-discovery of all the science and understanding that had been lost during the 'Dark Ages' which was a period of religious domination) - some parts of the Muslim world (from which a lot of science had been learned by the West) appears still needs to go through.

[DonkeyApple]

Ali G said:

DonkeyApple said:

Ali G said:

We're getting more into 'philosophy' now with your 'money is a religion' - which I would dispute.

As for the rest, well its down to 'power', 'envy' and other such base human motives.

As for the 'Knights Templar' - well your guess is probably better than mine as to why they were (all) slaughtered (allegedly)

Anyhoo - we're now well off topic!

Friday the 13th. Night of the long knives. The French King had his pet Pope round up and kill the Templars for heresy because the French king had borrowed too much from the Templars and didn't want to repay.

Same as happens with the Jews through the Middle Ages in the UK, Spain, France, Italy and anywhere where the Jews were used to circumnavigate usury laws.

But the relevance of money is that too little and religion becomes the excuse to blame others and enough of it and religions co-exist. Hence why the only places where % of religions is not a friction is at trade centres where people are busy making money and doing business rather than looking for problems.

Not much to disagree with there - although as should be recognised - with money comes MIGHT - and history tells us that this 'might' may need to be used with care - which it may not have been - again, this is OT

And whilst we in the West went through the Renaissance period in the Middle-Ages (a re-discovery of all the science and understanding that had been lost during the 'Dark Ages' which was a period of religious domination) - some parts of the Muslim world (from which a lot of science had been learned by the West) appears still needs to go through.

Agreed. But with numbers come might, whether those numbers are a currency or people.

The Coptics live well in Egypt (in terms of security and negating the recent change where scapegoating arises) fitting into an economic niche that benefits the incumbent religion but increase the population of Christians and you'll increase the friction.

Different people will always struggle to live together as we are all genetically just villagers who are programmed to fear people not from our village but upward mobility and money irons over this genetic throwback. Remove the money and the social mobility and people get uppity and tend to fall back on our basic survival genetics. So where there isn't enough money and social mobility it is better to have an enormous imbalance in differing groups so as to limit the friction.

[Alpinestars]

Anyone seen all the Christain soldiers raping innocent civilians in South Sudan? No thought not.

Yet another Muslim thread. Happy days.

[Foppo]

Purity14 said:

I think we should be more tolerant of the Muslims and stop being so racist and Islamaphobic all the time.

I think we are tolerant.I don't really care what anybody believes in don't shuf it down peoples throat.Live here where western clothes accept our culture all very simple.