Islam and the West
Discussion
supersingle said:
The extremists are exquisitely sensitive to any critisism/comment about Islam. It really doesn't matter what we do they will take offence. Our very existence offends them.
We've tried appeasement. Time for a new approach.
How or when did we "appease" them? As far as I know we (our Governments) were giving them cash and weapons until relatively recently.We've tried appeasement. Time for a new approach.
KareemK said:
Well when the extremists use this case of the confiscation of ordinary Muslims funds as evidence that the UK is anti-Islam in their radicalisation videos you'll have helped them achieve exactly what they want. You'll notice that they haven't been arrested or stopped from travelling which tells you all you need to know.
No it tells me that they went despite friendly advice not to and that the money was confiscated
As for the "The fact the money was confiscated could be a clue" comment again LOL. The Police and other UK authorities can and do confiscate goods and cash all the time without having any hard evidence. Ask the people who had their cars crushed at Dover a few years back when the couldn't 'prove' the ciggs and booze were for themselves and family. The EU had to step in there to get that practice stopped.
The police in the UK are hardly oppressive and this operation will have been done with considerable care and courtesy
Yes, they could donate to charity but we all know that long before that money ever reached the needy on the street it will have been creamed off by percentages taken in 'admin' costs and then end up - months bloody later - in the hands of some corrupt overseas organisation who totally fail to get it to where it's really needed. They've decided to take it over and distribute it themselves. To be honest nowadays thats what I'd do too if I felt strongly enough to go out and try an help.
I can agree with your first line but I don't believe that these cuddly lovelies can ensure it gets to the right people unless they give it to the end users themselves and I doubt they do If you do decide to go and help don't be too surprised if you encounter difficulties out there and a grilling when you return
Again your "No but then again you don't know them either do you chuck?" isn't valid. I'm not the one casting aspertions because they happen to be muslims talking about their 'brothers'.
My point is very valid its a point formed from an opinion that opinion being formed from my conclusions from the article. The fact that my comment suggests you don't know them any more than you do strikes such a chord with you suggests to me I am on the right trackNo it tells me that they went despite friendly advice not to and that the money was confiscated
As for the "The fact the money was confiscated could be a clue" comment again LOL. The Police and other UK authorities can and do confiscate goods and cash all the time without having any hard evidence. Ask the people who had their cars crushed at Dover a few years back when the couldn't 'prove' the ciggs and booze were for themselves and family. The EU had to step in there to get that practice stopped.
The police in the UK are hardly oppressive and this operation will have been done with considerable care and courtesy
Yes, they could donate to charity but we all know that long before that money ever reached the needy on the street it will have been creamed off by percentages taken in 'admin' costs and then end up - months bloody later - in the hands of some corrupt overseas organisation who totally fail to get it to where it's really needed. They've decided to take it over and distribute it themselves. To be honest nowadays thats what I'd do too if I felt strongly enough to go out and try an help.
I can agree with your first line but I don't believe that these cuddly lovelies can ensure it gets to the right people unless they give it to the end users themselves and I doubt they do If you do decide to go and help don't be too surprised if you encounter difficulties out there and a grilling when you return
Again your "No but then again you don't know them either do you chuck?" isn't valid. I'm not the one casting aspertions because they happen to be muslims talking about their 'brothers'.
Edited as replies didn't appear against your quotes in the first version. edited again as I see the replies still don't
Countdown said:
supersingle said:
The extremists are exquisitely sensitive to any critisism/comment about Islam. It really doesn't matter what we do they will take offence. Our very existence offends them.
We've tried appeasement. Time for a new approach.
How or when did we "appease" them? As far as I know we (our Governments) were giving them cash and weapons until relatively recently.We've tried appeasement. Time for a new approach.
We shouldn't have invaded Iraq and we shouldn't be doing anything now
Let them sort it themselves that means no aid, no money NOTHING
Mermaid said:
The British have their brothers here at home who could do with a bit of charity. So are these guys Muslim 1st, and then British?
How the *fruitcake* would I know what they are 1st, 2nd or even 3rd?More importantly whats that got to do with these guys getting their £25k confiscated.
I'm sure 'The British do have their brothers here at home who could do with a bit of charity', shall we stop donating to the poor of war zones around the world because of that? I don't understand your point.
KareemK said:
gpo746 said:
Well happen your the sort who thinks this all smells prim and proper.
Unless you can demonstrate otherwise? And in this instance can you?gpo746 said:
I don't simple as that and for that reason I think its good nay excellent police work and it prevents 25k getting into the hands of people I wouldn't wish to be near I am all in favour.
Well hopefully the desperate people this was meant for can receive it by other means.gpo746 said:
Bleeding hearts, "right on" attitudes/ benefit of the doubt has turned this country into a soft gullible one.
LOLgpo746 said:
Time for the situation to change and whilst cuddles Karim bay may love to take tins of beans over to the starving villagers in terrorist town it will and does arouse suspicion. 25 K I wonder how he raised all that?
The article spelled out how THEY raised that. It's all part of something that died out long ago in this country. gpo746 said:
Seems funny that some people can show kinship with someone they dunno in a country far away on the pretext that they are all "brothers" but not bat two eyelids when his immediate indigenous population neighbour gets to be the victim of terrorism in the same country he lives in.
Wow, so er you know the people concerned then and what their feelings, thoughts and political/religious affiliations are?Cool.
Well hopefully they'll find another way of getting the money out to those in desperate need of it then you wont have to worry yourself.
Why not give the money to an org like Red Crescent and volunteer to work for them? Why try the DIY route. Is it vanity to some extent?
technogogo said:
Why not give the money to an org like Red Crescent and volunteer to work for them? Why try the DIY route. Is it vanity to some extent?
Well, the obvious answer I suppose is that 'perhaps' they want to hand the money out to a specific village or community to which they have family or other ties.Just giving it to an organisation wont result in your actual brother, sister, mother etc being any better off next week than she is this week. Personally handing out cash to the community you care for will. If my gran had been dispossessed of her home and belongings I'd not be giving my earnings to the red cross in the vain hope that in 5 years time she'd get a couple of tins of beans out of it - not a chance - I'd be going over with cash to help her regroup and rebuild.
This is what died in this country a long time ago - a sense of caring for (and looking after) your actual family with self-sacrifice. Not everyone in the UK but 'generally'. We now pack our elderly and infirm relatives off to homes and the like so that we can continue on undisturbed.
It's a mind-set they have and taking their money away is not the answer unless you have concrete proof that it will be used for terrorist or other unsavoury purposes.
Edited by KareemK on Thursday 3rd July 09:22
KareemK said:
technogogo said:
Why not give the money to an org like Red Crescent and volunteer to work for them? Why try the DIY route. Is it vanity to some extent?
Well, the obvious answer I suppose is that 'perhaps' they want to hand the money out to a specific village or community to which they have family or other ties.Just giving it to an organisation wont result in your actual brother, sister, mother etc being any better off next week than she is this week. Personally handing out cash to the community you care for will. If my gran had been dispossessed of her home and belongings I'd not be giving my earnings to the red cross in the vain hope that in 5 years time she'd get a couple of tins of beans out of it - not a chance - I'd be going over with cash to help her regroup and rebuild.
KareemK said:
technogogo said:
Why not give the money to an org like Red Crescent and volunteer to work for them? Why try the DIY route. Is it vanity to some extent?
Well, the obvious answer I suppose is that 'perhaps' they want to hand the money out to a specific village or community to which they have family or other ties.Just giving it to an organisation wont result in your actual brother, sister, mother etc being any better off next week than she is this week. Personally handing out cash to the community you care for will. If my gran had been dispossessed of her home and belongings I'd not be giving my earnings to the red cross in the vain hope that in 5 years time she'd get a couple of tins of beans out of it - not a chance - I'd be going over with cash to help her regroup and rebuild.
This is what died in this country a long time ago - a sense of caring for (and looking after) your actual family with self-sacrifice. Not everyone in the UK but 'generally'. We now pack our elderly and infirm relatives off to homes and the like so that we can continue on undisturbed.
It's a mind-set they have and taking their money away is not the answer unless you have concrete proof that it will be used for terrorist or other unsavoury purposes.
Anytime, anywhere.KareemK said:
Asterix said:
Is there much of a Hawala system operating out of the UK back to the Middle East?
Nothing sorts a problem like cash.Edited by Mermaid on Thursday 3rd July 10:49
Mermaid said:
KareemK said:
Asterix said:
Is there much of a Hawala system operating out of the UK back to the Middle East?
Nothing sorts a problem like cash.
In fact, as it turns out, it's more risky to get it through England than it is through the war zones of the middle east
KareemK said:
technogogo said:
Why not give the money to an org like Red Crescent and volunteer to work for them? Why try the DIY route. Is it vanity to some extent?
Well, the obvious answer I suppose is that 'perhaps' they want to hand the money out to a specific village or community to which they have family or other ties.Just giving it to an organisation wont result in your actual brother, sister, mother etc being any better off next week than she is this week. Personally handing out cash to the community you care for will. If my gran had been dispossessed of her home and belongings I'd not be giving my earnings to the red cross in the vain hope that in 5 years time she'd get a couple of tins of beans out of it - not a chance - I'd be going over with cash to help her regroup and rebuild.
This is what died in this country a long time ago - a sense of caring for (and looking after) your actual family with self-sacrifice. Not everyone in the UK but 'generally'. We now pack our elderly and infirm relatives off to homes and the like so that we can continue on undisturbed.
It's a mind-set they have and taking their money away is not the answer unless you have concrete proof that it will be used for terrorist or other unsavoury purposes.
Edited by KareemK on Thursday 3rd July 09:22
Carry large amounts of cash across borders and you will arouse suspicion. Carry it to an area of unrest and it's only going to end one way.
KareemK said:
some interesting stuff in particular his point about aid on the ground being given directly to those who need it rather than being wasted via top heavy administration
Just curious what's your view on this sort of statement KareemKA Muslim going to fight against a barbaric regime such as a dictatorship that is killing innocent men, women and children is not a terrorist he is a hero.
Anyone thinking anything else doesn't understand the situation.
Or they are choosing not to understand the situation.
What is your view on that sort of thing.
gpo746 said:
KareemK said:
some interesting stuff in particular his point about aid on the ground being given directly to those who need it rather than being wasted via top heavy administration
Just curious what's your view on this sort of statement KareemKA
Anyone thinking anything else doesn't understand the situation.
Is it a fair comment/statement with that substitution now inserted? Has your viewpoint/answer to that question shifted even the tiniest amount with the word Christian or White or Englishman now inserted?
gpo746 said:
Or they are choosing not to understand the situation.
What is your view on that sort of thing.
You might be able to answer your own question now.What is your view on that sort of thing.
The old adage/chestnut about 'one mans terrorist being another mans freedom fighter' is always going to be true when you have 2 diametrically opposed cultures/ideologies/religions.
I just don't see that stopping people trying to help out those in desperate need with the greatest pain reliever you dispense - ie cash - from doing so is in any way helpful. Quite the opposite and will only ferment hostility to the UK as it'll just be seen as yet another example of the UK taking a side, again.
KareemK said:
gpo746 said:
KareemK said:
some interesting stuff in particular his point about aid on the ground being given directly to those who need it rather than being wasted via top heavy administration
Just curious what's your view on this sort of statement KareemKA
Anyone thinking anything else doesn't understand the situation.
Is it a fair comment/statement with that substitution now inserted? Has your viewpoint/answer to that question shifted even the tiniest amount with the word Christian or White or Englishman now inserted?
gpo746 said:
Or they are choosing not to understand the situation.
What is your view on that sort of thing.
You might be able to answer your own question now.What is your view on that sort of thing.
The old adage/chestnut about 'one mans terrorist being another mans freedom fighter' is always going to be true when you have 2 diametrically opposed cultures/ideologies/religions.
I just don't see that stopping people trying to help out those in desperate need with the greatest pain reliever you dispense - ie cash - from doing so is in any way helpful. Quite the opposite and will only ferment hostility to the UK as it'll just be seen as yet another example of the UK taking a side, again.
Fair enough
Thank you for your time
There was a genuine reason I asked BTW
Good luck to you and your beliefs
I simply would answer by saying that IN NO WAY would I wish to go and fight abroad for any cause, If I was conscripted or joined the army fair enough but I think that people who choose to go and fight as per the question I asked are wrong to do so.
I suspect that by you not answering you may know why I asked and from whom the quote (I slightly doctored) comes from ?
Edited by gpo746 on Thursday 3rd July 12:40
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